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I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

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Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#31

Post by Duff »

asolove wrote: post #4
tseabrooks wrote: post #2

I'm 27 so I think I'm just a couple years outside of this generation that can't find jobs. That said, I'm pretty sick and damned tired of seeing lists of things keeping these 20-somethings from succeeding. It's time for people to man up (Though I'm not excluding women) and take responsibility for themselves and stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The problem isn…

It's hard to point blame in one specific direction. Yes, you are right they should take responsibility. But these are people who grew up doing the "responsible" thing and listening to the advice of teachers and parents. They made good grades whether or not they learned, did extracurricular activities whether or not they enjoyed them, and otherwise put aside any sort of personal decision-making for 21 years, in the id…

I have a group of friends who have master's degrees in art education (from a private school), and are stuck being substitute art teachers and waiting tables, because there are few openings for art teachers.

In their minds, they did the "responsible" thing. They got good grades, went $100k+ plus in debt, and are waiting tables at age 28. The problem is, they didn't do the responsible thing -- they used alot of someone else's money to learn a skill of very narrow utility. Now they need to pay the piper.

People lack a critical eye. It's amazing to me that people advise high school kids the way that they do.

Frankly, I don't know how people do it. My wife and I make a good buck, own a modest home and drive one 5 year old car. We don't owe anyone anything, and we save alot, so we're "broke". I don't know how people fit a $400 student loan payment in, while living a non-frugal lifestyle.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#32

Post by lazerwalker »

csomar wrote: post #16
jiggy2011 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling people to "stop whining" isn't that constructive. I was unemployed about 5 years ago before the recession had really dug it's teeth in and even then it was tough. Spending days applying for every posting I was vaguely qualified for online and also physically hitting the pavement and handing out my CV to every business on the street. Also having to make decisions about whether it was better to get my suit dry-…

I would stop from applying after the 10th time. If you failed to get a job in 3-4 applications, something is wrong about your CV, presentation, or you. There is something wrong, it's your responsibility to fix it and try again. Personally, I won't say to a candidate you SUCK or you did that thing the wrong way. I'll just apologize that another candidate took the position. Advice from someone who was there: Go and bui…

I agree completely that you should build a network and use that to get a job. Extra points if you start building the network before you need a job -- networking's a lot more natural if you're not already trying to get something out of people.

I disagree that failing to get a job in 3-4 applications represents a problem with your resume/presentation/etc in all circumstances. While there are certainly times that's true (if you're an engineer in the current market, for example), there are many industries where there are simply too many qualified people applying for too few positions for getting a job via a cold application to be anything other than a complete crapshoot. (which, again, only emphasizes the importance of having a network to support your search).

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#33

Post by ctdonath »

zdw wrote: post #6

The fundamental problem in most of these is "lack of a safety net". While there are safety nets in society they often exclude the years when someone is most likely to take economic risks - for example, in the US a minimum free medical coverage is provided to those people under 18 or over 65. Personally, I'm thinking that if people knew they couldn't incur permanent damage to themselves or their futures, they would ta…

We have far more safety nets in place than ever - yet people are moving less. We've gotten so used to the notion of safety nets that we're terrified to move away from one lest another not be there - unaware that our predecessors took greater risks, and thus reaped greater rerwards, precisely because there was no safety net.

Doesn't help that the paranoia about safety nets results in demands everyone pay for and get premium nets, and then come to believe they cannot get by without such ideal services.

Suck it up and step out. You're going nowhere if you don't.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#34

Post by MatthewPhillips »

Duff wrote: post #31
asolove wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to point blame in one specific direction. Yes, you are right they should take responsibility. But these are people who grew up doing the "responsible" thing and listening to the advice of teachers and parents. They made good grades whether or not they learned, did extracurricular activities whether or not they enjoyed them, and otherwise put aside any sort of personal decision-making for 21 years, in the id…

I have a group of friends who have master's degrees in art education (from a private school), and are stuck being substitute art teachers and waiting tables, because there are few openings for art teachers. In their minds, they did the "responsible" thing. They got good grades, went $100k+ plus in debt, and are waiting tables at age 28. The problem is, they didn't do the responsible thing -- they used alot of someone…

High school students are getting advice that made since in the 1970s (when the people who are advising them went to school). Go to college, "find yourself", expand your horizons, etc. Then, that made you special. Today it just makes you one of many without any discernible skills.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#35

Post by OneBytePerGreen »

What is new about this generation is that they graduate with enormous student loan debt. They already have a "mortgage" or rent payment, only it goes towards their loans.

We desperately need good alternatives to current universities, indeed... the current default path of getting a degree by taking on enormous debt is just not viable in this economic environment.

But I also understand the cynicism of a couple responses. I have a few facebook friends in their twenties, and often enough, I read status messages like "I'm so broke and can't find a job (Posted from my IPhone)" or "I just spend two hours applying for ten jobs, will probably not hear back from any of them" (yes, most likely). Also - probably in part due to the large debt occurred to get their specific degree - some fresh graduates seem unwilling to expand their job search beyond their chosen field.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#36

Post by jiggy2011 »

cletus wrote: post #30

Reading through this list of anecdotes I had mixed emotions. I spent a significant amount of time unemployed 10+ years ago in the post-dotcom recession in the UK and it was awful. This was partly due to the highly unregulated nature of UK IT recruitment but the problem was the lack of jobs. Still, a see some problems in this article. Like "I graduated with a philosophy major in 2008". Bzzzzt. Sorry, you made choices.…

I think a big part of the problem is that in the UK people are encouraged by society to study what they are interested in ("it's about expanding your mind") and told that having any degree will give them a big advantage over the competition regardless. This may have been true 30 years ago but it isn't today.

I remember some time ago I was out for a drink with a number of students who were completing a course in film study (studing film as literature rather than the practical business of making film).

I asked them what their plans were after they graduated and almost all of them said "go back, get my masters and then try and get a job lecturing".

Well it doesn't take a genius to figure out that unless there will be an exponential growth of students interested in studying film every 5 years or so that this is a pyramid that will collapse very quickly.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#37

Post by sanderjd »

garyrichardson wrote: post #9
tseabrooks wrote: post #2

I'm 27 so I think I'm just a couple years outside of this generation that can't find jobs. That said, I'm pretty sick and damned tired of seeing lists of things keeping these 20-somethings from succeeding. It's time for people to man up (Though I'm not excluding women) and take responsibility for themselves and stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The problem isn…

I've wondered for a while now if this whiner generation actually complains about how the world is against them more, or if it's just easier for them to be heard. In particular, I'm thinking social media is the big culprit here. I also would expect some sort of tipping point: "Oh, you can't afford to live in the city because you can't get a job in pharma too? Wow, our generation is having a tough time." I'm 30, own ab…

Get over yourself. It's great that you're 30, have assets and a good life, and have never been unemployed. Huge swaths of the generation you so casually refer to as "whiners" will never have the chance to make those claims regardless of what they do or don't expect from the world, and you scoff at them from your comfortable perch.

Let's have some perspective - when kids decide whether and where to go to college, and agree to take on its debt, they are 17 and know nothing about the world, about job markets, about mortgage rates, about growth industries and dying industries. They are told by their parents and other adult influencers to study what they are passionate about because in America you can be whatever you want to be if you try hard enough and if you go to a good school. So the dumb 17-year-olds of this "whiner" generation went to college during a strong economy and played along with all the adult assurances that they would do great, and they graduated to a world with no work and especially not for most people who studied something they were "passionate" about.

It's such crap to scorn people for regretting decisions they were led into when they were clueless. People need to take responsibility for their own success, but our society needs to be thinking long and hard about how it has failed this generation and how to avoid failing the subsequent ones.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#39

Post by lutorm »

MattBearman wrote: post #23
zdw wrote: post #6

The fundamental problem in most of these is "lack of a safety net". While there are safety nets in society they often exclude the years when someone is most likely to take economic risks - for example, in the US a minimum free medical coverage is provided to those people under 18 or over 65. Personally, I'm thinking that if people knew they couldn't incur permanent damage to themselves or their futures, they would ta…

Personally, I'm thinking that if people knew they couldn't incur permanent damage to themselves or their futures, they would take more risks. Surely if people knew they couldn't incur permanent damage, it wouldn't be much of a risk? I don't think people's risk aversion has changed, I just think things are (or at least seem) more risky at the moment.

I think what was meant was more along the lines of "if people knew they couldn't incur severe permanent damage..."

The problem seems to be that if you fall off the "middle-class bandwagon" in the US, it's very difficult to get back on. Since medical emergencies or the like can easily do this to you, people who might be willing to take a reasonable risk become more focused on minimizing the risk of a really bad outcome than on maximizing expected outcome.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#40

Post by bdunbar »

It's simple. If there is no work where you are, then you need to move to where the work _is_.

Lots of places are hiring - we are, in the middle of inner nowwhere Midwest. I hear there are jobs going begging in North Dakota, in the oil fields. Not the most pleasant of jobs, but 3rd shift on a rig pays better than not working at all.

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