It is worth mentioning that these terms of service (specifically subsection 10.2) are completely illegal under EU's GDPR. It is a matter of time before someone takes them to court.
Not Using Zoom
31–40 of 202 posts
Re: Not Using Zoom
#32I came directly to the comments to recommend Jitsi instead. Glad the author made the same early in the article.
Has anyone tried Jitsi versus BigBlueButton?
Re: Not Using Zoom
#33OK big question If Jitsi doesn't require a user account, how do they prevent a bunch of random bots using up all their resources with sybil attacks? How do they pay for all that bandwidth, for TURN servers etc? What are the economics of it basically
Being self hosted reduces a lot of that problem.
Re: Not Using Zoom
#34>Be indemnified by me if it turns out someone else owns the IP or has their rights infringed (for example to confidential materials everyone on the call is entitled to review).
IANAL but that's not quite what the terms say.
>25. INDEMNIFICATION
>To the extent not prohibited by applicable Law, you agree to indemnify, defend, and hold Zoom and its affiliates and each of our licensors and suppliers (“Indemnified Parties”) harmless, including any officers, directors, employees, shareholders, members, consultants, and agents of the Indemnified Parties, from any third party allegation, claim, proceeding, liability, damage, or cost (including reasonable attorneys’ fees) arising out of or related to (i) your or your End User’s use of the Services or Software, (ii) your or your End User’s breach of this Agreement or violation of applicable Law, (iii) your or your End User’s infringement or violation of any Proprietary Rights or other right of any person or entity, (iv) your relationship with your End User or any dispute between you and your End User, or (v) a personal injury or property damage to a third party relating to your or your End User’s acts or omissions
(emphasis mine)
You'd really have to stretch the definition of "your or your End User’s use of the Services or Software" to include zoom running their AI training (unbeknownst to the user) for it to be included. What this clause is intended to cover is cases like you using zoom to commit some sort of crime (eg. streaming movies/sports matches), and zoom gets used along with you.
Re: Not Using Zoom
#35Time to go open source and self-hosted or peer to peer on everything we can. Teach your loved ones and friends the same.
Re: Not Using Zoom
#36The indemnification for IP is a standard term that exists in all SaaS terms. What it's saying is "if you upload copyrighted/infringing material to our service and someone sues us because of it, you have to pay our legal costs since we had nothing to do with it".
This is a pretty reasonable thing, you're the one who uploaded the material, you're responsible for it, especially since zoom isn't checking/filtering what you upload/share.
Re: Not Using Zoom
#37> Be indemnified by me if it turns out someone else owns the IP or has their rights infringed Does this mean Zoom expects their users to take on the legal burden if someone on a call uses a copyrighted image on a PowerPoint slide?
I loathe Zoom but wouldn’t that be the right call? The person who made the infringing content is responsible? We’ve already been through all of this with social networks, no?
The question I have is, what if my use during the call could be considered Fair Use in the context and with whatever intention I used it, but what if Zoom then uses it for some other purpose and in some other context that is not Fair Use, have I now taken on the burden of being responsible for however Zoom has chosen to use the content?
So, perhaps, I would have been fine using it under the previous terms, but under the new terms, I need to be aware the Zoom may, at any point in the future, utilize it for some other, undisclosed, purpose there's no way that I can use it.
How can anyone use Zoom at this point, considering the liability they are foisting onto their customers?
Re: Not Using Zoom
#38> Be indemnified by me if it turns out someone else owns the IP or has their rights infringed Does this mean Zoom expects their users to take on the legal burden if someone on a call uses a copyrighted image on a PowerPoint slide?
It sounds more sinister to me.
It seems that Zoom expects you not to use IP material on Zoom and if you do, you are the one to blame. Now that Zoom is harvesting everyone's content, video and transcripts, things will get very, very interesting.
So if you discuss/use company IP on a zoom call, Zoom's future AI can reproduce it freely.
Re: Not Using Zoom
#39[deleted]
Re: Not Using Zoom
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
I loathe Zoom but wouldn’t that be the right call? The person who made the infringing content is responsible? We’ve already been through all of this with social networks, no?
The question I have is, what if my use during the call could be considered Fair Use in the context and with whatever intention I used it, but what if Zoom then uses it for some other purpose and in some other context that is not Fair Use, have I now taken on the burden of being responsible for however Zoom has chosen to use the content? So, perhaps, I would have been fine using it under the previous terms, but under…
Ah OK, that facet of it makes total sense to me. I should be responsible for copyrighted material I show during my call, Zoom should be responsible if they take data from that call and make some machine learning thing that later infringes copyright.