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Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

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Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#31

Post by cat_plus_plus »

I am sick and tired of pressure to get into management once you get older and lack of other opportunities to be rewarded. If I can do job of 5 other people, I can be compensated like two others and the company is still ahead. Or if that's just my arrogance talking, there can be an objective system to measure work accomplished and set rewards accordingly. Instead all of my questions about advancement are met with demands for me to write PRDs and nag people who refuse to do work to do it, but without me actually having authority to make them.

I finally decided to just not sweat over it, do work that matches my pay in 2-3 days a week and spend the rest of my time teaching better programming skills to whoever is willing to learn and has a good attitude about it. With focus on general skills that they can take to their next job rather than internal proprietary tech. I don't care that I am not getting paid extra for that, at least it feels good to be in office.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#32

Post by shrimp_emoji »

smitty1e wrote: post #27

> 12) Joy is much harder to come by. Joy is an internal energy, orthogonal to the (tangentially) flat Earth that sits external to us. We might take pleasure or find satisfaction in our work, but joy is a mystical thing derived from one's faith. Whether a manager or Individual Contributor, one's capacity to find joy in the most suck-tacular experiences is the key to the next iteration of One Little Victory => https://…

That is an amazing comment, but this is a much better upload: https://youtu.be/rMYDuPWHFAo

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#34

Post by baz00 »

politelemon wrote: post #33

What can I as a little shits engineer, do to encourage and motivate managers?

As a manager we like people who actually build a house out of something other than shit and straw as we have to present that to people who don't like us and we just want a peaceful life too.

So keep it simple, quality and don't get distracted by shiny things.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#35

Post by zgluck »

baz00 wrote: post #29

A finding I had when I took a management role was that it's really hard actually getting anyone to do a good job of something. This is utterly frustrating. So many people actually don't give a fuck if what they do works or is of merchantable quality as long as it's perceived they are working for the hours required. I've found that the teams usually divide into functional elites that do the work unattended and I'm dea…

Making software is a bit special in that you can't really make use of people like that. In e.g. a supermarket you can.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#36

Post by gautamdivgi »

baz00 wrote: post #34
politelemon wrote: post #33

What can I as a little shits engineer, do to encourage and motivate managers?

As a manager we like people who actually build a house out of something other than shit and straw as we have to present that to people who don't like us and we just want a peaceful life too. So keep it simple, quality and don't get distracted by shiny things.

I’ve had the opposite situation. I’m a PE that works with a director. Problem is he’s been a lot more keen on the “shiny” than I am. After more than 25 yrs being an IC I’m definitely over the shiny. I can smell shiny tech debt miles away. Problem is trying to get the managers out of the technical path.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#37

Post by baz00 »

zgluck wrote: post #35
baz00 wrote: post #29

A finding I had when I took a management role was that it's really hard actually getting anyone to do a good job of something. This is utterly frustrating. So many people actually don't give a fuck if what they do works or is of merchantable quality as long as it's perceived they are working for the hours required. I've found that the teams usually divide into functional elites that do the work unattended and I'm dea…

Making software is a bit special in that you can't really make use of people like that. In e.g. a supermarket you can.

That is exactly the problem. Business assumes highly technical people are fungible. They are not. There are very few highly competent people on the market. Not enough to cover realistic requirements for business. So they hire anyone who makes duck noises assuming they are ducks.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#38

Post by jader201 »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #31

I am sick and tired of pressure to get into management once you get older and lack of other opportunities to be rewarded. If I can do job of 5 other people, I can be compensated like two others and the company is still ahead. Or if that's just my arrogance talking, there can be an objective system to measure work accomplished and set rewards accordingly. Instead all of my questions about advancement are met with dema…

> met with demands for me to write PRDs

> spend the rest of my time teaching better programming skills

Are you an engineer or a product manager? If you’re a PM, sounds like you should switch roles. If you're an engineer, sounds like your manager/peers don’t know that. :)

But in seriousness, it sounds like there may be a mismatch somewhere.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#39

Post by evandale »

baz00 wrote: post #34
politelemon wrote: post #33

What can I as a little shits engineer, do to encourage and motivate managers?

As a manager we like people who actually build a house out of something other than shit and straw as we have to present that to people who don't like us and we just want a peaceful life too. So keep it simple, quality and don't get distracted by shiny things.

Sometimes I need the distraction and want to try out the shiny things.

I really should find a new job because my manager has your attitude and it drives me crazy. I'm at a big corp and I can't stand the "just deal with it, there's processes and they suck but it's for the best" attitude that everyone has. I keep having the delusion that this year will be different because there has been small improvements.. but ffs. We run a Java stack and VisualVM is something I should be able to download without all the hoops. Nobody wants to help you jump through the hoops either, they just tell you to do it, and expect you to succeed.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#40

Post by matrix_overload »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #31

I am sick and tired of pressure to get into management once you get older and lack of other opportunities to be rewarded. If I can do job of 5 other people, I can be compensated like two others and the company is still ahead. Or if that's just my arrogance talking, there can be an objective system to measure work accomplished and set rewards accordingly. Instead all of my questions about advancement are met with dema…

Business likes predictability. The chance of 5 people deciding to leave all at once is exponentially lower than a chance of 1 person. Hence, unless you are the owner/founder, your replaceability will be valued more than your performance.
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