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Building and operating a pretty big storage system called S3

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31–40 of 169 posts

Re: Building and operating a pretty big storage system called S3

#31
post #13

> What’s interesting here, when you look at the highest-level block diagram of S3’s technical design, is the fact that AWS tends to ship its org chart. This is a phrase that’s often used in a pretty disparaging way, but in this case it’s absolutely fascinating. I’d go even further: at this scale, it is essential and required to develop these kind of projects with any sort of velocity. Large organizations ship their c…

[deleted]

Re: Building and operating a pretty big storage system called S3

#32
post #13

> What’s interesting here, when you look at the highest-level block diagram of S3’s technical design, is the fact that AWS tends to ship its org chart. This is a phrase that’s often used in a pretty disparaging way, but in this case it’s absolutely fascinating. I’d go even further: at this scale, it is essential and required to develop these kind of projects with any sort of velocity. Large organizations ship their c…

something something Conway's law

Re: Building and operating a pretty big storage system called S3

#33

Working in genomics, I've dealt with lots of petabyte data stores over the past decade. Having used AWS S3, GCP GCS, and a raft of storage systems for collocated hardware (Ceph, Gluster, and an HP system whose name I have blocked from my memory), I have no small amount of appreciation for the effort that goes into operating these sorts of systems. And the benefits of sharing disk IOPs with untold numbers of other cus…

Unfortunately many tools in genomics (and biotech in general) still depend on local filesystems- and even if they do support S3, performance is far slower than it could be.

Re: Building and operating a pretty big storage system called S3

#34
post #18

Great to see Amazon employees being allowed to talk openly about how S3 works behind the scenes. I would love to hear more about how Glacier works. As far as I know, they have never revealed what the underlying storage medium is, leading to a lot of wild speculation (tape? offline HDDs? custom HDDs?).

Blueray disks are thought to be the key: https://storagemojo.com/2014/04/25/amazons-glacier-secret-bd...

Some people disagree though. It’s still an unknown.

Re: Building and operating a pretty big storage system called S3

#35
post #2

> That’s a bit error rate of 1 in 10^15 requests. In the real world, we see that blade of grass get missed pretty frequently – and it’s actually something we need to account for in S3. One of the things I remember from my time at AWS was conversations about how 1 in a billion events end up being a daily occurrence when you're operating at S3 scale. Things that you'd normally mark off as so wildly improbable it's not…

Ever see a UUID collision?

Even at a billion requests per second, 128 bit UUIDs shouldn't collide for something like a billion years.

And that's if you're going completely random and not taking care to try to reduce collisions.

Re: Building and operating a pretty big storage system called S3

#36
post #2

> That’s a bit error rate of 1 in 10^15 requests. In the real world, we see that blade of grass get missed pretty frequently – and it’s actually something we need to account for in S3. One of the things I remember from my time at AWS was conversations about how 1 in a billion events end up being a daily occurrence when you're operating at S3 scale. Things that you'd normally mark off as so wildly improbable it's not…

Personally I'd love working in that kind of environment. That one in a billion hole still itches at me. There's also a slightly-perverse little voice in my head ready with popcorn in case I'm lucky enough to watch the ensuing fallout from the first major crypto hash collision :-).

Re: Building and operating a pretty big storage system called S3

#37
post #29
post #18

Great to see Amazon employees being allowed to talk openly about how S3 works behind the scenes. I would love to hear more about how Glacier works. As far as I know, they have never revealed what the underlying storage medium is, leading to a lot of wild speculation (tape? offline HDDs? custom HDDs?).

Glacier is a big "keep your lips sealed" one. I'd love AWS to talk about everything there, and the entire journey it was on because it is truly fascinating.

My impression is that the ambiguity gives them freedom to implement in different ways across different regions and over time.

The original Glacier was very clearly tape, but given the instant retrieval capabilities the newer S3-Glacier tiers are most likely just low-margin HDDs, maybe with some dynamic powering on and off of drives/servers.

Re: Building and operating a pretty big storage system called S3

#38
post #18

Great to see Amazon employees being allowed to talk openly about how S3 works behind the scenes. I would love to hear more about how Glacier works. As far as I know, they have never revealed what the underlying storage medium is, leading to a lot of wild speculation (tape? offline HDDs? custom HDDs?).

Amazon engineer here - can confirm that Glacier transcodes all data on to the backs of the shells of the turtles that hold up the universe. Infinite storage medium, if a bit slow.

Re: Building and operating a pretty big storage system called S3

#39
post #11

The things we could build if S3 specified a simple OAuth2-based protocol for delegating read/write access. The world needs an HTTP-based protocol for apps to access data on the user's behalf. Google Drive is the closest to this but it only has a single provider and other issues[0]. I'm sad remoteStorage never caught on. I really hope Solid does well but it feels too complex to me. My own take on the problem is https:…

Such a system would be amazing. It would really force companies whose products are UIs on top of S3 to compete hard because adversarial interoperability would be an ever present threat from your competitors.

It really is such a shame that all the projects that tried/are trying to create data sovereignty for users became weird crypto.

Re: Building and operating a pretty big storage system called S3

#40

Working in genomics, I've dealt with lots of petabyte data stores over the past decade. Having used AWS S3, GCP GCS, and a raft of storage systems for collocated hardware (Ceph, Gluster, and an HP system whose name I have blocked from my memory), I have no small amount of appreciation for the effort that goes into operating these sorts of systems. And the benefits of sharing disk IOPs with untold numbers of other cus…

It also explains some of the cost model for cloud storage. The best possible customer, from a cloud storage perspective, stores a whole lot of data but reads almost none of it. That's kind of like renting hard drives, except if you only fill some of each hard drive with the "cold" data, you can still use the hard drive's full I/O capacity to handle the hot work. So, if you very carefully balance what sort of data is on which drive, you can keep all of the drives in use despite most of your data not being used. That's part of why storage is comparatively cheap but reads are comparatively expensive.
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