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At this company, we are family

pboyd.io

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Re: At this company, we are family

#31

Post by matrix_overload »

intothemild wrote: post #18
me_jumper wrote: post #8

Gosh, I hate “we are a family” companies so much.

As someone who's autistic, these kinds of companies are very difficult for me. Usually the "we're family" companies are also the "let's have a social event constantly", or return to the office days are also just filled with socializing. I get it.. some people really enjoy that, but that's not everyone. It feels like it's by design to exclude other kinds of people who don't enjoy a hyper social environment.

No, it's a way to distract them so they won't notice they're being screwed over financially and opportunity cost-wise. You are immune to this exploit, which makes you a black sheep in their eyes, but not that you should care. Look for places that don't do the bullshit and you'll end up better off than the sheep.

Re: At this company, we are family

#32

Post by QuinnyPig »

quux wrote: post #30
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

Is that kind of language legal in states like CA and NY with WARN laws?

This will depend upon how large your family is.

Re: At this company, we are family

#33

Post by oldandboring »

FredPret wrote: post #21
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

This is a refreshing comment to read. HN and Reddit discussions about employment in the US is often just a dumpster fire of "America bad", half-baked theories and observations from the perspective of the employee, where US workers have no rights and would be rioting in the streets if we hadn't been brainwashed by corporate media.

Here on earth, what you wrote is much closer to the truth. The American economy is awash with opportunities to work for small businesses, with employees free to move around and chart their own destiny.

Re: At this company, we are family

#34

Post by davidw »

intothemild wrote: post #18
me_jumper wrote: post #8

Gosh, I hate “we are a family” companies so much.

As someone who's autistic, these kinds of companies are very difficult for me. Usually the "we're family" companies are also the "let's have a social event constantly", or return to the office days are also just filled with socializing. I get it.. some people really enjoy that, but that's not everyone. It feels like it's by design to exclude other kinds of people who don't enjoy a hyper social environment.

This is why the interview process should include 'culture fit' so that it can weed out people who would be good at getting the work done but not fun for the bros to hang out and drink beer with.

Re: At this company, we are family

#35

Post by suryong »

gonehome wrote: post #23
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

Independent of the tongue-in-cheek joke of this post, software salaries in the US are triple (or more) than those in Europe, I'd rather keep the tradeoffs we have even if that means there are downsides - the upsides are worth it. I suspect the labor protections in Europe are part of the reason there aren't many billion dollar software companies there and the salaries are low, hiring is risky when firing is hard.

There are places like HK and Singapore where firing is super easy, yet the software industry in those places still pales to USA and even to Europe in some cases

Re: At this company, we are family

#36

Post by systemvoltage »

me_jumper wrote: post #8

Gosh, I hate “we are a family” companies so much.

I disagree, my father ran a small business (physical goods) and the people in his company were almost like a family. They felt as such, we treated them as such, it was amazing...brings a tear. I cannot emphasize this enough: It was far better relationship than resentful people on HN who are constantly complaining about work. They were happier as a whole.

Re: At this company, we are family

#37

Post by anon291 »

jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

> You should fight for some more rights, sometime What is the purpose of these 'rights'? As a software engineer in America, who's been laid off many times, I get (1) unemployment, (2) 100% free medical (few SW engineers apply, but most who are laid off would be eligible, if they cared),(3) a free vacation for however long as I want, (4) lots of savings because I make so much more than my European counterparts, and (5) a great job market so I can rinse and repeat 1-5. Exactly what am I missing? Having spoken to many non-American devs... they're the ones being abused by being forced to work for sub-market wages for very little gain, and very little opportunity should they decide to branch out on their own.

Re: At this company, we are family

#38

Post by playing_colours »

FredPret wrote: post #21
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

In Germany we have probation period of 6 months that helps both sides to decide if they want to continue employment.

Can you please explain the causation between easiness of firing / hiring and high salaries?

Re: At this company, we are family

#39

Post by vore »

jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

It makes no sense to put the blame on individuals like this. I am no fan of the lack of workers' rights in the US, but the holier-than-thou European smugness is really not appreciated, given how little recourse people have in the American system.

Re: At this company, we are family

#40

Post by jraby3 »

FredPret wrote: post #21
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

I’m not convinced Americans pay less in taxes.

When you include state taxes, social security from the employee and employer, then it starts to look like much less of a difference.

When you include health insurance and college education, Americans get much less value.

I do agree with the first half of your comment. American labor laws make it easier to fire which allows employers to take more risk in hiring.

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