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Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

nytimes.com

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Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#31

Post by CogitoCogito »

SoftTalker wrote: post #29
CogitoCogito wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure maybe they have to say “yes” to the price, but I’m asking if they have to actually provide the drugs. Could they just decide not to sell them at that price or to just sell less?

Selling at an artificially low price will result in shortages. Always does. Short of nationalizing these companies, there is no way to "force" them to produce anything.

I never argued otherwise. I was simply pointing out that unless drug companies are actually being forced to priced the drugs (which I don’t think they are), they always have the option to direct more of their sales to a higher bidder.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#32

Post by miley_cyrus »

Justsignedup wrote: post #6

An industry that heavily lobbied for a law which heavily boosts their profits wants to heavily lobby against the destruction of such a law? Shocked. /s Honestly I see no theoretical benefit to not allowing the government to negotiate. Maybe there is a practical one?

Sure, if you want much less innovation: "IRA means 40% reduction in new drugs over 10 years, report finds" https://bio.news/health/ira-impact-new-drugs-pharmaceutical-...

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#33

Post by miley_cyrus »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #22
johndhi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand the drug companies are saying 'yes.' they would have no ability to walk away from negotiations.

Sure maybe they have to say “yes” to the price, but I’m asking if they have to actually provide the drugs. Could they just decide not to sell them at that price or to just sell less?

So they spend billions of dollars doing R&D to develop a medicine and then can't sell any?

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#34

Post by zer8k »

miley_cyrus wrote: post #32
Justsignedup wrote: post #6

An industry that heavily lobbied for a law which heavily boosts their profits wants to heavily lobby against the destruction of such a law? Shocked. /s Honestly I see no theoretical benefit to not allowing the government to negotiate. Maybe there is a practical one?

Sure, if you want much less innovation: "IRA means 40% reduction in new drugs over 10 years, report finds" https://bio.news/health/ira-impact-new-drugs-pharmaceutical-...

I don't think they're fighting to keep the price on rare lifesaving drugs. They are fighting to keep the price of insulin, cholesterol medication, blood pressure medication, and various other "public good medications" commonly used by medicare recipients as high as possible.

Its the same tactic doctors use when dealing with medicare. I've been to several doctors that won't take it. The reasoning is obvious: your insurance company will just deny you and medicare will fight them to the bitter end on pricing.

Can you name a single large biotech firm that is going to produce a negative yearly profit because insulin is affordable? I sure can't.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#35

Post by epistasis »

mc32 wrote: post #10
jmclnx wrote: post #3

>Supreme Court might be sympathetic to some of the industry’s arguments No surprise here, the US Supreme Court is now just like the rest of the US Gov, they are very happy to take bribes. And due to how the US Gov is structured, no way to stop them from holding out their hand. So getting appointed to that Court is a great gig, you do not even have to care about the law these days.

The gov should do what Singapore does: pay senior officials well but exterminate any sort of non monetary perquisites and impeach or fire violators. Also ban any gov person from trading on insider info. Also, if I had it my way, no government person while in the employ of the gov, should be able to vote at the level they represent or work in. If they’re fed employees no voting in fed elections and so on. Yes, I know…

For a long time, basic pride by Supreme Court justices kept this in check.

But now it's time for external enforcement. There are too many justices who think that they embody law and order in themselves, and therefore no matter what they do they are obeying the law, since they are the law. Similar to most police forces these days.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#36

Post by epistasis »

Kye wrote: post #25
johndhi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer your question, lawyers of the capacity of the SCOTUS justices could expect to make about 4 million a year.

What's the value of a lifetime appointment?

Depends a lot on whether they can take bribes, accept gifts, etc. during that appointment.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#37

Post by kelseyfrog »

OO000oo wrote: post #13
mc32 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it’s unreasonable that avowed socialists should maintain multiple homes as well, but here we are. How do freshman Congress people suddenly have millions in assets to their names?

This is a bad joke, right? Would you hold the politicians that you support to the same standards? Of course not, and none of Bernie’s supporters could possibly care less if he has a home in Vermont and a home in DC just like literally every single senator. You can't possibly even know what socialism is if making such an airheaded comment.

It's because it's a tu quoque. Normally when confronted with an argument that ties ones argument with ones behavior, we would say that the argument stands independent from the person saying it. But for what ever season, that seems not to be an assumption with this topic - which is itself a case of special pleading. I'm curious, why though? Isn't it just a case of letting emotions control logic?

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#38

Post by teeray »

SoftTalker wrote: post #29
CogitoCogito wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure maybe they have to say “yes” to the price, but I’m asking if they have to actually provide the drugs. Could they just decide not to sell them at that price or to just sell less?

Selling at an artificially low price will result in shortages. Always does. Short of nationalizing these companies, there is no way to "force" them to produce anything.

Seen a different way, we pay for goods with two currencies: money and time. If the dollar price is artificially low, the time to acquire the good increases to compensate.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#39

Post by miley_cyrus »

zer8k wrote: post #34
miley_cyrus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you want much less innovation: "IRA means 40% reduction in new drugs over 10 years, report finds" https://bio.news/health/ira-impact-new-drugs-pharmaceutical-...

I don't think they're fighting to keep the price on rare lifesaving drugs. They are fighting to keep the price of insulin, cholesterol medication, blood pressure medication, and various other "public good medications" commonly used by medicare recipients as high as possible. Its the same tactic doctors use when dealing with medicare. I've been to several doctors that won't take it. The reasoning is obvious: your insu…

Not true: insulin is not a drug whose price is being negotiated here (https://www.jmcp.org/doi/full/10.18553/jmcp.2023.29.3.229). The drugs whose prices are being negotiated are the brand new ones, the ones that took billions of dollars to develop. Without the promise of a payoff, future R&D will be halted, and humanity won't get benefit from the new medicines.

Re: Drugmakers are ‘throwing the kitchen sink’ to halt Medicare price negotiations

#40

Post by swader999 »

amrocha wrote: post #21
retrac wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much could a good lawyer with a long and distinguished career make in the private market? That's how much we should be paying our judges. If you want the best you have to at least be moderately competitive with what's on offer. I have a similar opinion about legislators -- we probably want top tier doctors and executives and lawyers as our legislators. Being elected to office should not be a step down in their li…

I don't disagree with you, but at some point the number stops mattering. What's the difference in lifestyle between 300K and 500K? 500K and 1M? And even if there is a difference, is that worth the opportunity cost of paying everyone else a little bit better? It's not a very popular opinion, but there should be a maximum salary imo. Beyond a certain number money is a means of acquiring power and influence, and it feel…

You get into Nanny zone and hiring out all your chores with more time available.
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