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Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

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Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#31

Post by tapatio »

jedmeyers wrote: post #27
tapatio wrote: post #8

Just get rid of GPAs and grading altogether. If a kid wants to learn algebra, support them. Why does everything have to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator?

A lot of people in positions of power are currently obsessed with achieving equality of outcomes (aka equity) and dumbing down to the lowest common denominator is an only working way to achieve that goal for large groups of people.

We practice equal opportunity in the USA. They should move to Russia or some other commie country to practice equal outcome.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#32

Post by gotoeleven »

gnicholas wrote: post #13
crop_rotation wrote: post #2

In the age of Zoom, won't even slightly well to do parents get tutors from a remote country for a reasonable price for their kids if the school stops teaching math. The only kids who will suffer are the kids where parents are not so much focused on education, thus increasing the disparity.

You can get remote tutors to teach your kid skills, yes. However, if your goal is to have your kid advance to higher math classes, it isn't enough to just know the skills. Schools erect extreme barriers to advancement (Palo Alto USD has been successfully sued on this point [1]), so what students really need is to enroll in outside courses that are certified replacements in order to get credit. Finding out about which…

The article you linked is incredibly confusing. I assume the issue is, which is typical of any advanced courses in school districts where helicopter tiger moms live, that little billy didn't qualify for the advanced math course because he's not smart enough but mom knows he's actually a genius. The pressure to let in little billy builds and builds until the districts relent and fill the classes with buffoons and the educational quality is lowered for everyone.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#34

Post by threatofrain »

tapatio wrote: post #28
xxpor wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know who's doing well then? Seems like eliminating quantitative measurements will only make things worse.

A kid takes a French class. Can he speak French afterwards? Can he read/write in French? I guess that's how you'd know if he learned it. Is that a test? I guess so but I'd like to see grades take a backseat to actual learning. Maybe that's a bad position to take.

But now nobody can say whether any curriculum is better.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#35

Post by headcanon »

crop_rotation wrote: post #2

In the age of Zoom, won't even slightly well to do parents get tutors from a remote country for a reasonable price for their kids if the school stops teaching math. The only kids who will suffer are the kids where parents are not so much focused on education, thus increasing the disparity.

I don't think you need to get a tutor from a remote country. I would just enroll them in an after-school math program like Kumon. But yes, enhancing the education after school in general is likely what motivated parents with means would do.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#36

Post by gizmo686 »

gnicholas wrote: post #5

The Dallas experiment is interesting, and it’s not surprising at all that the students actually learned more than if they had been in less-advanced classes. The question I have is what the grades look like for the kids who were somewhat involuntarily included in the class. In junior high, grades don’t matter all that much, but come high school it could be worse to have lower grades in more challenging courses, depend…

This is only realy relevent for college admissions. Having a high school degree is a credential that matters, but few people will look at the GPA on it.

For college admissions, the admissions offices aren't stupid. They generally don't look at "GPA", but compute it themselves. A small private school might need to worry about how colleges interpret their transcripts. But a system as large as California? Colleges will learn very quickly how to weight grades from different levels of classes. They already need to deal with grades being wildly inconsistent between schools. They also get other signals such as the SAT, which provides a consistent measure independent of class level.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#37

Post by scythe »

This blog post treats a tired subject. At least a dozen front-page HN pieces have lamented cuts to algebra.

But what makes it worthwhile is Noah's coverage of the Dallas experiment. That is a much less-told story. If you came directly to the comments, it's very much worth clicking on the link and scrolling down to the second half to see the data from Texas.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#38

Post by okeuro49 »

scarmig wrote: post #26
brightball wrote: post #19

Stuff like this is why I will remain a proponent for true vouchers for the rest of my life. No parent should be stuck without options when educational governance goes sideways like this. Pull your kid. Find them a school that gives them the greatest opportunity to succeed and use the funds earmarked for their education to ensure they receive it. Currently, options are restricted to parents who can afford to move to a…

There's the theory that, by forcing the kids with the most engaged parents to go to schools with the kids of less engaged parents, the engaged parents will drive school districts to implement good educational policies. In reality, though, that doesn't seem to have worked. School board elections have very low turnout usually, and the people elected to them are disproportionately ideologues who treat engaged parents wi…

I agree, and particularly this part

> There's the theory that, by forcing the kids with the most engaged parents to go to schools with the kids of less engaged parents

is really rough on the kids of engaged parents, forcing them to be responsible for "fixing" systems that they didn't create.

In the UK, we used to have "grammar schools" that selected on ability based on a standardised test. They were responsible for many working- and middle class children being propelled into high positions in industry and politics, including Prime Minister.

However the whole idea was deemed inequitable, so they were dismantled. Now privately school educated children have less competition.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#39

Post by brightball »

scarmig wrote: post #26
brightball wrote: post #19

Stuff like this is why I will remain a proponent for true vouchers for the rest of my life. No parent should be stuck without options when educational governance goes sideways like this. Pull your kid. Find them a school that gives them the greatest opportunity to succeed and use the funds earmarked for their education to ensure they receive it. Currently, options are restricted to parents who can afford to move to a…

There's the theory that, by forcing the kids with the most engaged parents to go to schools with the kids of less engaged parents, the engaged parents will drive school districts to implement good educational policies. In reality, though, that doesn't seem to have worked. School board elections have very low turnout usually, and the people elected to them are disproportionately ideologues who treat engaged parents wi…

That’s a good case for vouchers.

Instead, kids with engaged parents will flee to better schools. The other parents will either follow, growing the new school and model, or the other school will adapt in order to retain students.

Engaged parents are your early adopters. Without vouchers, most people can’t even afford to enter the market.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#40

Post by [deleted] »

brightball wrote: post #19

Stuff like this is why I will remain a proponent for true vouchers for the rest of my life. No parent should be stuck without options when educational governance goes sideways like this. Pull your kid. Find them a school that gives them the greatest opportunity to succeed and use the funds earmarked for their education to ensure they receive it. Currently, options are restricted to parents who can afford to move to a…

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