Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 166 posts

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#31

Post by remarkEon »

_g7d8 wrote: post #28
remarkEon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've spent about a month in Europe for the last three years on vacation and travel there for work semi-frequently. I've considered moving (wife says no, for now). I agree with you on the finance part. I'd need to accrue some significant coin to make this move make sense financially (plus finish becoming fluent). What I'd tell you is this "cope" isn't really cope. Americans just don't have many options for cities that…

You don’t need to become fluent in a European language before moving there. Most expats don’t. Having some familiarity will help, it’ll become much easier to learn the language when you’re actually in the environment, and no one will expect you to suddenly speak their language when you get there.

Yeah, I know. I guess I just consider it a polite and respectful thing to do. At a minimum you should speak enough to "get around in an emergency" before you move there. Maybe that's just my midwestern sensibilities.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#32

Post by FirmwareBurner »

jefozabuss wrote: post #19
remarkEon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've spent about a month in Europe for the last three years on vacation and travel there for work semi-frequently. I've considered moving (wife says no, for now). I agree with you on the finance part. I'd need to accrue some significant coin to make this move make sense financially (plus finish becoming fluent). What I'd tell you is this "cope" isn't really cope. Americans just don't have many options for cities that…

Speaking of Vienna: is anyone here who work from there remotely (for a non-Austrian company)? I heard it's a bit complicated due to you need to have an in-country representation of the company or similar.

Vienna and Austria in general sucks for tech opportunities including remote due to tax and work laws. Also buying real-estate is eye-wattering expensive when you look at local wages (being non-NATO country means it's a safe harbor for oligarchs to lauder their money and also a cash based society means a lot of black untaxed money gets put into real estate).

You're getting absolutely hosed if you move here for tech work. It's great if you're on government jobs, minimum wage/unionized jobs and living in rent controlled flats though and need frequent government support but if you're a skilled professional, living on real estate off the private market, then basically anywhere else in Europe is better bang for your buck than here.

As an expat there I don't think quality of life in Vienna is that WOW to be honest, it's just that it keeps being promoted by The Economist every year at winning this title they invented, based on some random requirements they set up, to the point I feel it's basically and ad paid by the city of Vienna (Austria already pays a lot for such international advertisements to support their tourist industry) to lure expats to wage-dump themselves and work here and cover the labor shortages (the "most livable city" title comes up a lot in job ads targeting foreigners).

It's basically the Canada of Europe: high real estate costs , low wages, with generous subsidies and social nets for the less well off Austrians.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#33

Post by code-blooded »

veave wrote: post #14
code-blooded wrote: post #9

I moved from the US to Europe a year ago and I think articles like this don't capture quality of life in Europe well. Just think about healthier food, walkable cities, great public transportation, safety, free education and healthcare. The way I see it, life in Europe is less stressful and more enjoyable than in the US. Having less money translates into having a smaller house or a car, but in my opinion that doesn't…

I've read this comment (or variations of it) so many times I am starting to wonder if it's a joke that I'm missing. Or simply propaganda. I understand that you are in tech and are happy with your position, but consider the lives of millions who are unemployed, or those who can't afford to turn their AC on or fix their car when it breaks down. Not to mention how much prices have increased.

There are poor people anywhere in the world. I have friends who only make a little more than minimum wage here in Europe and of course they cannot afford many things like nice vacations or perhaps even the dryer at home (people just hang clothes anyway - not a big deal :) ), but they don't live on the street, can still see a doctor, have a car or use the excellent public transportation, and are okay overall.

The last city I lived in the US was Seattle and there were people doing drugs on the streets in middle of the city and cops just walked by. Many homeless people actually have a job. Healthcare is insanely expensive. Education costs are a joke.

I'm not saying everything is great in Europe. The original point I was trying to make is that comparing salaries/wealth alone completely misses the point. Quality of life is more complicated than that.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#35

Post by stuaxo »

seren wrote: post #13
code-blooded wrote: post #9

I moved from the US to Europe a year ago and I think articles like this don't capture quality of life in Europe well. Just think about healthier food, walkable cities, great public transportation, safety, free education and healthcare. The way I see it, life in Europe is less stressful and more enjoyable than in the US. Having less money translates into having a smaller house or a car, but in my opinion that doesn't…

As a European, I can still believe this is true (maybe this is some kind of coping mechanism), but at the same time, I got the impression, that overall healthcare, education, safety nets are getting worse as time goes by, so I don't know how long it will stay an advantage. At some point, you need to have the mean to finance these services, so stagnating GDP is not that good.

In the UK, our healthsystem was the best on most metrics before the Tories came in and now it's behind on most.

Next will be Kier Starmer for Labour who main promises seem to be to keep the policies of the incumbents.

(Health used as an illustrative area but this applies across the board).

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#36

Post by astrange »

code-blooded wrote: post #20
astrange wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just think about having to post this comment every time Americans ask why you don't have ice water, air conditioning or clothes dryers, and why you have half their purchasing power and are buried in cookie banners. Btw, the main reason people think European food tastes better than US is because we enrich our flour with extra nutrients. You just don't like the taste of iron.

But I do have A/C and a clothes dryer. Again, things like that are easily affordable if you work in the tech or professional fields in Europe.

Is it vented to the outside, or is it the kind that doesn't work?

(Japan also only has the kind that doesn't do anything. No personal experience elsewhere.)

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#37

Post by gfedtbyby »

boffinAudio wrote: post #26
undefinedland wrote: post #6

[flagged]

[flagged]

> And that is why its not happening ..

No that's not why it's happening. US had nothing against stronger integration between the EU and Russia in the 90s and 00s, they'd much rather focus on the Pacific. Russia chose a different path as revanchist ex-empires gennerally tend to do...

> This would result in a superpower even China would have to ally with

Possibly but Russia really has nothing useful to contribute besides natural resources. It would clearly be a corrupting influence in Europe so I'm not sure if the cost would really be worth it.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#38

Post by georgeplusplus »

boffinAudio wrote: post #26
undefinedland wrote: post #6

[flagged]

[flagged]

The fact is, Russia and Europe getting along would be great for the world. Not so much for American interests. And that is why its not happening ..

>>> This would be great in theory. But how do you reconcile a progressive left government siding with an authoritarian. It's pure fantasy.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#39

Post by lucasRW »

Western European are funding the eastern countries (tens of billions per year), plus, are accommodating hundreds of thousands of migrants per year. You'd have to be a full to think that at some point this does not translate into a serious dent into your economic health.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#40

Post by stuaxo »

motbus3 wrote: post #25
seren wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, I can still believe this is true (maybe this is some kind of coping mechanism), but at the same time, I got the impression, that overall healthcare, education, safety nets are getting worse as time goes by, so I don't know how long it will stay an advantage. At some point, you need to have the mean to finance these services, so stagnating GDP is not that good.

As a non European, I can see some patterns that happen to my country 10-20y ago. There is a systematic de-funding of education and health care to prioritise the same private sectors. It is hard to explain in few words, but at least in my country we realised it too late.

Neoliberalism is fairly explicit that the government shouldn't do anything - everything is farmed out to for profit businesses with light touch regulation - enshitification of everyday services is the result.
Post reply on HN