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The deindustrialization of Germany

politico.eu

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Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#31

Post by javajosh »

In addition to this general malaise, the EU Cyber Resilience Act (CRA) is going to have a big, negative impact on all of the EU, especially Germany, and especially the software industry. The CRA itself is insane, requiring, for example, that conforming software phone-home. Which is, of course, the opposite of what we should be pushing for. Note that something similar is probably coming to the US in the next few years.

I learned about this today from Eclipse Foundation executive director Mike Milinkovich's excellent video/tutorial/warning on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmsM5_5QO5A

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#32

Post by depr »

adasdasdas wrote: post #20
imtringued wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sentiment is so common in Germany. Everyone blames the European "south" for Germany's problems as if Germany was some sort of hero doing all the work. The Greek economic crisis is a classic example. German banks mess up when they lend too much money to Greece, Germany does a bailout for "Greece", the money actually goes back to German banks. Then people have this perception as if they somehow paid for all the so…

Why are you only talking about the lender's fault when it comes to bad loans.

Loan me 100k and find out

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#33

Post by nradov »

Michelangelo11 wrote: post #18
huijzer wrote: post #13

I have tried to go against some of the arguments because some are wrong, some are okayish, and some are just plain wrong, but I gave up. The article moves all over the place pulling random facts from all kinds of places in support of the idea that Germany is declining. Maybe that's true, maybe not. This article appears not rigorous enough to come to a right conclusion.

Right, I have the same impression -- it's really all over the place. Anyway, the absolute key issue seems to be energy costs. If they hadn't skyrocketed, this wouldn't be happening.

Not just energy but specifically access to natural gas. Even when not burned for power and heat it acts as an essential feedstock for much of the German chemicals industry. With flows from Russia being reduced or eliminated there is no choice but to relocate production.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#34

Post by shakow »

adasdasdas wrote: post #20
imtringued wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sentiment is so common in Germany. Everyone blames the European "south" for Germany's problems as if Germany was some sort of hero doing all the work. The Greek economic crisis is a classic example. German banks mess up when they lend too much money to Greece, Germany does a bailout for "Greece", the money actually goes back to German banks. Then people have this perception as if they somehow paid for all the so…

Why are you only talking about the lender's fault when it comes to bad loans.

Because that's literally the job of the lenders.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#36

Post by Atropos »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #29
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #4

And obviously the reason is the lack of labour reform and not the billions in handouts currently given by the US and China which the EU refuses to match because of its brain dead insistence on undistorted markets and fiscal rigour. Ah Politico, such well researched and reasonable journalism, it warms my heart…

> because its brain dead insistence on undistorted markets and fiscal rigour The issue lies in the fact that the EU is comprised of numerous countries within a single market. When one nation begins to subsidize a company or an entire sector, the other nations are left powerless, merely watching their own companies struggle to compete against those bolstered by government subsidies. It becomes a game of pouring govern…

You should check out how EU state aid laws work. This is exactly the issue they are addressing and it is not true that we have seen a significant "subsidy race" between different EU countries in the recent past.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#37

Post by HackOfAllTrades »

huijzer wrote: post #13

I have tried to go against some of the arguments because some are wrong, some are okayish, and some are just plain wrong, but I gave up. The article moves all over the place pulling random facts from all kinds of places in support of the idea that Germany is declining. Maybe that's true, maybe not. This article appears not rigorous enough to come to a right conclusion.

Same here. It reads like a huge list of cherry-pickings.

You'd think that quoting facts would strengthen ones argument, all these tiny and sometimes very specific facts with no context had the opposite effect.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#38

Post by tdrz »

photochemsyn wrote: post #22

The article mentions 'high energy prices' and 'energy costs' and alludes to 'Kremlin cutting off natural gas supplies' but otherwise provides zero discussion of the overall energy picture in Europe. A couple of major issues they could have addressed: 1. In retrospect, was the German decision to eliminate nuclear power wise? Could they have squeezed another decade of power out of their existing plants, even if they di…

> 1. In retrospect, was the German decision to eliminate nuclear power wise?

"The country’s Green transformation, the so-called Energiewende, has only made matters worse. Just as it was losing access to Russian gas, the country switched off all nuclear power."

> Maybe blowing up the Nordstream pipeline wasn't such a smart move, after all.

Or maybe relying so much on a partner which others have warned you about was actually the not so smart move.

Re: The deindustrialization of Germany

#39

Post by eldaisfish »

choeger wrote: post #23

Germany is extremely well positioned to rise again economically in the next five years or so. It's attracting migrants from all over Europe, it's located quite nicely in the middle of the continent and it's currently building a massive capacity of renewable energy. The only real problem right now is efficiency of spending. Nearly all public sectors (defense, housing, transportation, education, healthcare) bemoan sign…

i would not be so hopeful. A big problem is that germany does not operate in the global lingua franca - English. This really shows when countries like Australia and Canada - combined, both have a population less than germany’s - are able to attract the best and brightest from around the world.

Another problem is one that plagues all old world countries - societies are based around ethnicity.

These combine to mean that Germany and the EU in general are not attracting the best from abroad. The region is often the second or third choice of the educated migrant. Don’t believe me - look at the EU’s own internal migration numbers and the stats for immigrants from outside the EU. Internal EU migration is pretty low relative to countries like US (states vs countries, sure) and the immigrations from outside are largely poorly educated.

This shows in Germany’s immigration policy - they have been reducing barriers to entry for over a decade now and are yet struggling to hire foreign talent. This begs the question - why?

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