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New Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework Largely a Copy of “Privacy Shield”

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Re: New Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework Largely a Copy of “Privacy Shield”

#31

Post by kergonath »

WeylandYutani wrote: post #27
TekMol wrote: post #6

Here in Europe, we are in a paradoxical downward spiral. And unfortunately, I see no end to it. Understandably, we don't want our citizens to be spied upon by the US and have all that data stored in the US. Unfortunately, our "solution" is to create regulations which cause so much disadvantage to European tech companies, that we will see our citizens use even more US built tools in the future. We already live in a mo…

The Chinese succesfully kept the Americans out so it's totally doable.

I am pretty sure Europeans are not ready for the compromises that come with this approach.

It’s also easy to misunderstand the sentiments, from the comments here. We Europeans do not hate the US or American companies in general (though some are evil, of course, just like some European ones). OTOH we are seeing the privacy nightmare they are building for themselves and really don’t want that, thank you very much.

“Buy European” is limited to nationalist loonies and privacy-conscious nerds, mostly, and in the latter case it’s not because of anti-Americanism. Fix US laws and 1) Americans will live better lives and 2) these sort of issues will disappear.

Re: New Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework Largely a Copy of “Privacy Shield”

#32

Post by kergonath »

FinnKuhn wrote: post #7

So the current approach is just to implement the same law after it was deemed illegal with minor changes as it takes some time until the courts decide it is illegal? What a joke.

Unfortunately, yes. The Commission is playing dumb and hoping we’ll get tired before they do.

Re: New Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework Largely a Copy of “Privacy Shield”

#34

Post by autoexec »

pgeorgi wrote: post #15
autoexec wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, our "solution" is to create regulations which cause so much disadvantage to European tech companies, that we will see our citizens use even more US built tools in the future. What is the "disadvantage" to European tech companies who don't want to spy on anyone? What advantage do Europeans who don't want to be spied on gain by using US services that will spy on them instead of using European ones that…

The US business model has established "free" for services on the net, paid for by others using behavioral data for advertising. That has its advantages (access for all, no matter the socioeconomic background!) but no "paid for by others" scheme that is less intrusive has popped up yet and "free" is very hard to compete with. There's also less of a culture of "pour billions into tons of startups and see what sticks",…

Europeans can use ad supported models without resorting to surveillance capitalism. They can even use targeted advertising without it. You don't need to have people's entire internet history, a full list of their past sexual partners, and their GPS coordinates to push ads relevant to a person's interests. The spying is entirely unnecessary, and there's a history going back long before the internet even existed proving that ads without the spying are effective.

Privacy laws don't prevent Europeans from offering ad based services on the net, and being limited to providing more privacy friendly services will make those services more attractive to consumers outside of the EU as well. There's a lot of opportunity created when you can't simply fall back on the most exploitative practices the US allows for.

Re: New Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework Largely a Copy of “Privacy Shield”

#35

Post by amadeuspagel »

camgunz wrote: post #25
TekMol wrote: post #6

Here in Europe, we are in a paradoxical downward spiral. And unfortunately, I see no end to it. Understandably, we don't want our citizens to be spied upon by the US and have all that data stored in the US. Unfortunately, our "solution" is to create regulations which cause so much disadvantage to European tech companies, that we will see our citizens use even more US built tools in the future. We already live in a mo…

I think it's more EU tech protectionism. Basically the law is saying, "you can't use US tech services." So this creates a local market for EU tech services. There's probably an argument between capitalists in the EU who want to develop that market (while complying with EU privacy regulations) and security people in the EU/US who want to continue to use tech to facilitate mass surveillance. Trying to guess who will wi…

GDPR dramatically reduced venture investments in europe, compared to the US[1]. Protectionism is not something you can do indirectly. It requires certainty and clarity.

[1]: https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/short-run-effects-gdpr-techno...

Re: New Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework Largely a Copy of “Privacy Shield”

#36

Post by camgunz »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #35
camgunz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more EU tech protectionism. Basically the law is saying, "you can't use US tech services." So this creates a local market for EU tech services. There's probably an argument between capitalists in the EU who want to develop that market (while complying with EU privacy regulations) and security people in the EU/US who want to continue to use tech to facilitate mass surveillance. Trying to guess who will wi…

GDPR dramatically reduced venture investments in europe, compared to the US[1]. Protectionism is not something you can do indirectly. It requires certainty and clarity. [1]: https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/short-run-effects-gdpr-techno...

I'm not really talking about GDPR here; it's not US-specific and doesn't have the effect of walling off the EU market from the US.

I'm not a huge fan of GDPR FWIW; in particular I think the requirement to have representatives and data protection officers is way too burdensome for smaller companies. They probably thought they'd create a cottage industry of EU representative/DPO service companies, but that's so little of a business it just feels like an invitation to set one up as a front for money laundering. I like the thought of GDPR, but the law as written is actually pretty weird IMO.

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