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OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

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Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#31

Post by DannyBee »

t0mas88 wrote: post #17
Zephyo_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very uneducated on this subject, what exactly is the problem with that sentence?

Apparently the code is Apache licensed, so you can use that code. Putting a file somewhere that states "you agree to X by using the software" without you signing anything isn't an enforceable contract. If they want you to agree to something it needs to be (e-)signed. Not just stating an action and claiming that by doing that you agree to a contract.

Actually, this is totally wrong, at least in the US.

They can't bind you for doing nothing (opening a package for example).

They can bind you if you get the benefit of the bargain, which you would by using the software.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#32

Post by jxdxbx »

Y_Y wrote: post #2

> "By installing, copying or otherwise using ... you agree to be bound by ... " Why do people keep writing shit like this. Whoever wrote that EULA no doubt has an understanding of contract law and knows that you can't just unilaterally bind someone into an agreement like that. I know it's classic EULA nonsense, but it still bugs me how you can just write whatever and hope people naively take your word on it.

A “license” is legal permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal, such as copy software (assuming there’s no fair use etc), or even attend a concert. Licenses are often granted as part of contracts, but need not be. Unilateral license conditions are not binding contacts, but not following them can still be unlawful. If a movie theater breaks a license term by for example playing a movie publicly without authorization, it violates copyright, not contact law. Probably both in real life.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#33

Post by DannyBee »

gmerc wrote: post #14
Zephyo_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very uneducated on this subject, what exactly is the problem with that sentence?

What OP says, it’s not enforceable. that’s not how contracts work despite longstanding attempts to make people believe so

OP is wrong. This would be a enforceable in the US, despite lots of HN not wanting it to be, and badly playing lawyer.

Unilateral form contracts are enforced all the time.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#34

Post by DannyBee »

alphager wrote: post #15
Zephyo_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very uneducated on this subject, what exactly is the problem with that sentence?

A contract requires mutual assent. Hiding an EULA.txt file somewhere does not fulfill the assent requirement. You are already copying nextcloud when you download it; you can't be bound to arbitrary demands you never heard of for that.

Unilateral form contracts are a thing.

Clickwrap is generally enforceable.

Browserwrap generally is not.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#35

Post by DannyBee »

delusional wrote: post #9
Y_Y wrote: post #2

> "By installing, copying or otherwise using ... you agree to be bound by ... " Why do people keep writing shit like this. Whoever wrote that EULA no doubt has an understanding of contract law and knows that you can't just unilaterally bind someone into an agreement like that. I know it's classic EULA nonsense, but it still bugs me how you can just write whatever and hope people naively take your word on it.

It should be disbarrable to knowingly write unenforceable EULA's.

This one is likely enforceable.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#36

Post by mhitza »

blackout91 wrote: post #23
sneak wrote: post #16

So, no longer open source? Do they own copyright to all of the code that allows them to relicense it like that?

Are you not able to view into that code anymore because there is some text added to the repo ?

That's not what open source means. You seem to be conflating it with sources available.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#37

Post by Semaphor »

deng wrote: post #28
Y_Y wrote: post #2

> "By installing, copying or otherwise using ... you agree to be bound by ... " Why do people keep writing shit like this. Whoever wrote that EULA no doubt has an understanding of contract law and knows that you can't just unilaterally bind someone into an agreement like that. I know it's classic EULA nonsense, but it still bugs me how you can just write whatever and hope people naively take your word on it.

Unfortunately, it is not that easy. First off, "contract law", apart from being incredibly complex, is also different depending on where you are located. Even within the US, we have seen different rulings on whether EULAs are enforceable or not. It often depends on how these EULAs are presented to the user and how exactly they are worded. Here in Germany, I'm pretty sure that the above would not be enforceable, but t…

> Here in Germany

I agree, because of AGB-law, though that depends on some stuff, the usual EULA-void rules were because you had to buy the software before agreeing to the EULA instead of the other way around. Not sure what would happen here.

But IIRC that is generally not relevant for contracts between companies, only between consumers and companies. Not quite sure about that part, though.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#38

Post by tssva »

Y_Y wrote: post #2

> "By installing, copying or otherwise using ... you agree to be bound by ... " Why do people keep writing shit like this. Whoever wrote that EULA no doubt has an understanding of contract law and knows that you can't just unilaterally bind someone into an agreement like that. I know it's classic EULA nonsense, but it still bugs me how you can just write whatever and hope people naively take your word on it.

The blanket statement that EULAs are unenforceable is not accurate. EULAs are enforceable in some jurisdictions. They are where I live.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#39

Post by dragooc »

With this PR https://github.com/owncloud/ocis/pull/6755 I tried to make the policy a bit more clear after we got a nice issue report about it.

To be clear: only binary builds of stable versions of Infinite Scale that the ownCloud company is shipping are protected by the EULA. The source code license is Apache2 or AGPL for some parts, and is not touched by this of course.

The EULA even allows free use widely, including private, non-commercial and in commercial contexts. It does not allow hosting.

We hope to provide a clear and understandable regulation for the project with this, that is protecting our efforts to a certain degree.

Re: OwnCloud Infinite Scale added EULA that prohibits commercial use [pdf]

#40

Post by sneak »

Canada wrote: post #22
sneak wrote: post #16

So, no longer open source? Do they own copyright to all of the code that allows them to relicense it like that?

They have required contributors to actually sign a CLA since the beginning, so yeah, they do own the copyright.

This is the main reason I will never donate code to an organization that requires a CLA: it allows them to repurpose your contributions to promote and distribute proprietary software, which is, IMO, the ultimate in ingratitude.

Most orgs that require a CLA are just doing open source cosplay, they don't actually give a fuck about software freedoms.

Maybe someone should harvest all the contributor emails out of the OwnCloud git history and send them a note so that they know what happened as a result of signing their copyrights away.

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