‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#31

Post by TurkishPoptart » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 4:57 PM UTC

theprincess wrote: post #8

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. All of the bans on them specifically still allow them to be used for this purpose, because they are indeed safe enough. It's just that people don't like the idea of children being transgender, probably because it reminds them that they could potentially have a gay or transgender child. The Alan Turing lie is laughabl…

>Agnes Torres

Being intersex is very rare and unfortunate, and I am sympathetic to those with such birth defects.

However, the explosion in "trans kids" has nothing to do with being intersex and has everything to do with being a mental craze. There is no explanation for feelings of "gender dysphoria" rising by 1000% among young girls except for it being a mental craze, with all the encouragement and support among themselves, in social media, and among the school administrators. [1]

[1]: https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seduc...

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#32

Post by theprincess » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 4:57 PM UTC

bletchp wrote: post #27

theprincess wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Gay people don't require any medical interventions to be gay, so it's not really the same thing. If the transgender identity is innate, why are there so many detransitioners coming out recently? Something has clearly gone very wrong.

> Gay people don't require any medical interventions to be gay, so it's not really the same thing.

Many homophobes have made "medical" arguments about why sodomy should be banned. Aids was seen as a "gay disease" and as proof of how homosexuality caused and spread diseases. A good friend of mine's mother refused to have her hair done by a gay man in our small town because she said she was scared he may cut his hand while cutting her hair and give her hepatitis or aids (what's more, she was a nurse).

Beyond that, pathologization of gender non-conformity is why homosexuality was classed as an illness until relatively recently, and it's been a common source of medicalized discrimination shared by gay and trans people.

> why are there so many detransitioners coming out recently

Because the same few are being trotted about by conservative media outlets and political action committees to stir up hate.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/former-detransitioner-fights-anti-...

good info here too:

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition...

A study showing the rate of desistance in trans youth, using more recent cohorts, showing that it still hovers around 2% where it has basically always been:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S188898912...

tl;dr 98% of trans youth are well served by receiving medical care and 2% are not. Conservative media blows up coverage on the 2% in order to try to ban treatment for that other 98% instead of doing the sane and humane thing, which would be to try to screen out more of the 2% from getting care and allowing that 98% live happy lives.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#33

Post by TurkishPoptart » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 4:59 PM UTC

dehugger wrote: post #6

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Have you ever had a conversation with a trans person? Quality of life for trans people that get the privilege of blockers is enormously higher than their counterparts. They've been in use for decades; it's not new. I cannot imagine a greater horror then having gender dysphoria, knowing exactly what is wrong, and still being forced to go through the wrong puberty (which does inflict irreparable harm, for us) because s…

Yes, I have. Some trans adults really need these treatments, but that does not explain the 1000% increase in so-called "trans kids" over the past 2-3 years.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#34

Post by bletchp » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 5:00 PM UTC

theprincess wrote: post #28

sverona wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This comment implies that you support conversion therapy. Conversion therapy has been tried, in every possible fashion, and has never worked. It is functionally just torture that leaves people shattered emotionally and sometimes physically. Supporting it is inhumane. I think you're jumping to conclusions --- my reading of GP is that "the cause" == dysphoria.

> I think you're jumping to conclusions --- my reading of GP is that "the cause" == dysphoria. Conversion therapists like Ken Zucker know full well about gender dysphoria and helped create the old "gender identity disorder" diagnosis in DSM IV. The "conversion" they are trying to achieve is to change the child's gender identity so that it's congruent with their sex via conversion therapy. This has failed spectacularl…

> What it comes down to is just punishing gender non-conforming behavior.

Not really though, it's perfectly possible to be gender non-conforming without undergoing drastic medical procedures. In particular, all the women and men who reject the societal impositions of femininity and masculinity, while still being comfortable with their bodies.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#35

Post by test098 » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

Georgelemental wrote: post #23

sverona wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I know someone, personally, who has suffered from these treatments and now regrets having ever taken them.

n=1 is not a representative sample. many people suffer from medical treatments and regret having them. if you can show me that the percentage of people who regret trans treatments are dramatically higher than people who regret _any_ medical treatment, maybe then you'll have an argument.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#36

Post by mitt_romney_12 » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 5:05 PM UTC

bletchp wrote: post #25

theprincess wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. All of the bans on them specifically still allow them to be used for this purpose, because they are indeed safe enough. It's just that people don't like the idea of children being transgender, probably because it reminds them that they could potentially have a gay or transgender child. The Alan Turing lie is laughabl…

> Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. That's a different treatment though, because puberty eventually resumes. Halting it entirely is more akin to the castrati children [1] who had their puberty physically blocked through removal of testicles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato

Puberty blockers are not permanent [1] they're taken until people start hormone therapy at which point they go through normal puberty

[1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dyspho...

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#37

Post by test098 » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 5:07 PM UTC

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #31

theprincess wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. All of the bans on them specifically still allow them to be used for this purpose, because they are indeed safe enough. It's just that people don't like the idea of children being transgender, probably because it reminds them that they could potentially have a gay or transgender child. The Alan Turing lie is laughabl…

>Agnes Torres Being intersex is very rare and unfortunate, and I am sympathetic to those with such birth defects. However, the explosion in "trans kids" has nothing to do with being intersex and has everything to do with being a mental craze. There is no explanation for feelings of "gender dysphoria" rising by 1000% among young girls except for it being a mental craze, with all the encouragement and support among the…

> However, the explosion in "trans kids" has nothing to do with being intersex and has everything to do with being a mental craze

what "explosion"? the only explosion is the right wing suddenly realizing trans people exist and turning it into a political issue.

have you considered that the reason you're seeing more about "trans kids" or people being more open about gender dysphoria because it's more socially acceptable to be LGBTQ than it was 50 years ago? or maybe because right wing outrage is profitable?

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#38

Post by theprincess » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 5:08 PM UTC

bletchp wrote: post #34

theprincess wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you're jumping to conclusions --- my reading of GP is that "the cause" == dysphoria. Conversion therapists like Ken Zucker know full well about gender dysphoria and helped create the old "gender identity disorder" diagnosis in DSM IV. The "conversion" they are trying to achieve is to change the child's gender identity so that it's congruent with their sex via conversion therapy. This has failed spectacularl…

> What it comes down to is just punishing gender non-conforming behavior. Not really though, it's perfectly possible to be gender non-conforming without undergoing drastic medical procedures. In particular, all the women and men who reject the societal impositions of femininity and masculinity, while still being comfortable with their bodies.

> Not really though, it's perfectly possible to be gender non-conforming without undergoing drastic medical procedures. In particular, all the women and men who reject the societal impositions of femininity and masculinity, while still being comfortable with their bodies.

Yes, I was pointing out how the conversion therapy works. I know lots of happy feminine gay men and butch gay women for example, but they don't have gender dysphoria. Trans people aren't the same as feminine gay men or butch gay women.

Zucker himself, whose conversion therapy included punishing boys for playing with barbies, said he supported the idea of someone being a feminine man and saw his therapy as a way of achieving that. He would straight up tell parents that their children would most likely be gay, but that being gay was better than being trans.

So, ironically, we have a conversion therapy, where the aim was to turn trans kids gay. I guess they thought that if you punished gender non-conformity early on you could instill a sense of maleness or femaleness into a kid, and then later they could just be more femme or butch as they liked. Sick stuff.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#39

Post by somedude895 » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 5:09 PM UTC

theprincess wrote: post #22

Georgelemental wrote: post #17

Puberty is an incredibly complicated process, involving innumerable intertwined signaling pathways, gene expression changes, physical and mental changes, etc. We are only beginning to understand it all; to think we can just "pause" it like an MP3 player is the height of hubris. These experimental treatments have many potential negative side effects, including osteoporosis and infertility. Teenagers who feel insecure…

And yet, Lupron has been used since the 1970's to treat precocious puberty and every single ban on using it for gender affirming care still allows it to be administered for that purpose. Medical associations also approve its use, in both cases. When the people against it are only against it for one group of people, and doctors by and large disagree with them, it makes me suspicious that their motives are not based in…

> only against it for one group of people

People aren't against any group of people, they're against administering a damaging and potentially life-ruining treatment to perfectly healthy children.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#40

Post by sverona » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 5:10 PM UTC

theprincess wrote: post #28

sverona wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This comment implies that you support conversion therapy. Conversion therapy has been tried, in every possible fashion, and has never worked. It is functionally just torture that leaves people shattered emotionally and sometimes physically. Supporting it is inhumane. I think you're jumping to conclusions --- my reading of GP is that "the cause" == dysphoria.

> I think you're jumping to conclusions --- my reading of GP is that "the cause" == dysphoria. Conversion therapists like Ken Zucker know full well about gender dysphoria and helped create the old "gender identity disorder" diagnosis in DSM IV. The "conversion" they are trying to achieve is to change the child's gender identity so that it's congruent with their sex via conversion therapy. This has failed spectacularl…

You're talking past me. I'm a trans girl who went through testosterone-mediated puberty. If "the cause" is dysphoria, then "treating the cause" is transitioning.