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Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

theguardian.com

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Re: Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

#31

Post by throwaway5959 »

Shawnj2 wrote: post #28
loeg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another key word is "Toyota" -- even if the battery tech is great, is Toyota really going to start making EVs or selling batteries? Japanese manufacturers have been dragging their feet on full EVs, possibly because the domestic Japanese grid can't really support EVs.

They’ve been selling the Bz4x for about a year now which is basically an electric RAV4

It’s comically bad. The charging curve is horrible, entertainment system is a joke, doesn’t look appealing and has issues with retaining charge on the 12 volt battery.

Re: Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

#32

Post by throwaway5959 »

pornel wrote: post #21
goethes_kind wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Toyota does not want to compete in the luxury EV business because they do not see a profit for them. Toyota's success was not built on their luxury models.

EVs (at least those with road-trippable range) are currently aiming for a "luxury-ish" segment, because it helps hide the cost of the battery. Extra $8K on a $50K car isn't too bad and can be hidden by cutting costs somewhere else. But on a <$20K car there's nothing left to cut, and the extra cost takes it out of the budget segment.

No one looks at TCO. A $28k EV vs a $20k ICE car will have significantly lower TCO over a ten year period. Oil changes alone will be $1200 if done every six months at $60 a pop.

Re: Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

#33

Post by samstave »

moolcool wrote: post #17
passwordoops wrote: post #6

Time for our regularly scheduled monthly battery "breakthrough" PR campaign! Does this one walk on water?

There's a cynical comment like this on every battery story, ignoring the fact that battery breakthroughs do exist, and that lithium ion energy density has ~tripled in the past decade.

Mind an ELI5 of how they tripled lith batt density/capacity?

Re: Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

#34

Post by samstave »

robertlagrant wrote: post #11
passwordoops wrote: post #6

Time for our regularly scheduled monthly battery "breakthrough" PR campaign! Does this one walk on water?

I can make one that floats on water. Get me a headline[0]! [0] does not hold charge

Just make the whole thing out of potassium.

Re: Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

#35

Post by passwordoops »

moolcool wrote: post #17
passwordoops wrote: post #6

Time for our regularly scheduled monthly battery "breakthrough" PR campaign! Does this one walk on water?

There's a cynical comment like this on every battery story, ignoring the fact that battery breakthroughs do exist, and that lithium ion energy density has ~tripled in the past decade.

Show me one example where a breathless announcement like this contributed to such an improvement

Re: Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

#36

Post by [deleted] »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #26
Projectiboga wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota has actually pivoted and partnered with Mazada to share tech to fill watch other's gaps. Toyota is releasing a full electric car in about 12-15 months.

Yes --- they're now being forced to play catch-up after their ridiculous attempt at diversion went nowhere. Here is what they were spouting less than 2 years ago. “By promoting further collaboration in producing, transporting and using fuel in combination with internal combustion engines, the five companies aim to provide customers with greater choice”. https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/15/toyotas-team-japan-aims...

[deleted]

Re: Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

#37

Post by _hypx »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #23
benj111 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't their hydrogen cars use fuel cells. Ie they use electric motors not ic engines

Yes but you're missing the point. The infrastructure needed to fully support hydrogen would take decades to develop. Starting with some way to efficiently manufacture hydrogen without using even more fossil fuels. It's the stall that they wanted --- to give them more time to milk ICE and adapt. There is no corresponding infrastructure delay for EVs which are already being adopted.

> There is no corresponding infrastructure delay for EVs which are already being adopted.

That's an utter fantasy. We are nowhere near having enough infrastructure to do this.

Re: Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

#38

Post by FreshStart »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #19
loeg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another key word is "Toyota" -- even if the battery tech is great, is Toyota really going to start making EVs or selling batteries? Japanese manufacturers have been dragging their feet on full EVs, possibly because the domestic Japanese grid can't really support EVs.

possibly because the domestic Japanese grid can't really support EVs. The domestic grid has no impact on most Toyota/Japanese cars which are exported or built elsewhere --- often using engines made in Japan. This was about saving a large segment of the Japanese economy which is centered around the internal combustion engine and associated expertise and know how. https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/15/toyotas-team-japan…

Very similar to Germany. Als tooting the hydrogen horn.. Again similar to Germany. A wild pattern of sabotaging the successor by naming his little brother king emerges.

Re: Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

#39

Post by petre »

thebruce87m wrote: post #20
ftrobro wrote: post #5

a solid-state battery with a range of 1,200km (745 miles) that could charge in 10 minutes or less For that range I assume the battery holds 150 Wh/km * 1200 km = 180 kWh. Charging it in 10 minutes would require about 1.1 MW. That's a lot of Watts.

Probably not viable for the home, but maybe a super capacitor at service stations.

Small print reads:

* Only available at the Niagara Hydroelectric Power Station

Re: Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

#40

Post by petre »

goethes_kind wrote: post #16
martythemaniak wrote: post #4

While Toyota has been busy looking for silver bullets that will solve imagined problems, Tesla has been scaling hard with good-enough technology. Their Q2'23 production is a hair under 2 million units per year, so they're already a mid-size OEM (the size of BMW, MB, Audi, etc).

Maybe Toyota does not want to compete in the luxury EV business because they do not see a profit for them. Toyota's success was not built on their luxury models.

Don't they sell those under the Lexus brand? Toyota is their workmanlike brand.
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