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Reddit 1.0 was written in Lisp

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Re: Reddit 1.0 was written in Lisp

#31

Post by stuaxo »

mg wrote: post #29
wudangmonk wrote: post #15

The current reddit seems to be written in js/python. I can see the logic behind js since its a lot easier to find devs and thanks to all the hard work of the engineers behind v8 its not a slow language. I do not understand why python was chosen though. If you need more speed you would go with c++ and not python which is the slowest popular language. Anyone got any insight into why python was chosen?.

I have a theory (which nobody I ever met shares) that the visually most beautiful language is the one that long-term results in the fastest development of a project: Visual noise is like inflation. A constant tax on what you do. But you barely notice it. But it accumulates because it is constantly leading to slightly worse and more complex code. Since it is harder to focus on a noisy something in front of you, you ma…

Although now people use types with python, is it still ?

Re: Reddit 1.0 was written in Lisp

#32

Post by codetrotter »

winrid wrote: post #26
wudangmonk wrote: post #15

The current reddit seems to be written in js/python. I can see the logic behind js since its a lot easier to find devs and thanks to all the hard work of the engineers behind v8 its not a slow language. I do not understand why python was chosen though. If you need more speed you would go with c++ and not python which is the slowest popular language. Anyone got any insight into why python was chosen?.

It was chosen because at the time because python was much more mature and productive. They didnt use Django, but as an example Django is still more productive than any Node framework I've tried thus far, too, and we have types now. :)

NodeJS didn't even exist when Reddit started using Python, as far as I can tell.

Initial release of NodeJS was May 27, 2009; 14 years ago.

Swartz was involved in the development of Reddit until he departed from the company in 2007.

And we know that parts of the Python code for Reddit was written by Swartz.

Re: Reddit 1.0 was written in Lisp

#33

Post by mg »

stuaxo wrote: post #31
mg wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a theory (which nobody I ever met shares) that the visually most beautiful language is the one that long-term results in the fastest development of a project: Visual noise is like inflation. A constant tax on what you do. But you barely notice it. But it accumulates because it is constantly leading to slightly worse and more complex code. Since it is harder to focus on a noisy something in front of you, you ma…

Although now people use types with python, is it still ?

What other people use does not change how you can use the language. You don't have to use types.

I just took a look at the 4 latest Show HNs which are written in Python. None of them uses types.

Re: Reddit 1.0 was written in Lisp

#34

Post by bitwize »

fnordsensei wrote: post #13
mchaver wrote: post #12

So I've read that they wrote it in Lisp at Paul Graham's request or to win favor. Does anyone know if writing your startup code in Lisp still has that benefit?

As someone who’s been involved in both, it’s not like the language you pick doesn’t make a difference, but I’d say that there are other factors that vastly overshadow it. For example, one thing we were told when choosing to write in a lisp was that we’d have problems finding developers. It turned out to be true in that we received fewer applications, but compared to the same process with a more mainstream language, I…

Many of the most famous "done in Lisp" products I know of have the delightful feature that it's not Lisp itself that provides a solution that other languages can't. Rather:

1) Developers who like Lisp tend to be really smart, well-read, and well-educated.

2) Lisp streamlines these developers' thought processes, allowing them to get more done with less, fast.

For example, the early Naughty Dog games written in GOOL/GOAL take clever advantage of asset data to produce effects close to the very edge of what the PlayStation/PlayStation 2 can do. No feature in these Lisp languages made this possible where C or C++ could not, but working in Lisp enabled the developers to iterate quickly, experiment, and arrive at interesting innovative solutions within the required time frame.

Re: Reddit 1.0 was written in Lisp

#35

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

mg wrote: post #29
wudangmonk wrote: post #15

The current reddit seems to be written in js/python. I can see the logic behind js since its a lot easier to find devs and thanks to all the hard work of the engineers behind v8 its not a slow language. I do not understand why python was chosen though. If you need more speed you would go with c++ and not python which is the slowest popular language. Anyone got any insight into why python was chosen?.

I have a theory (which nobody I ever met shares) that the visually most beautiful language is the one that long-term results in the fastest development of a project: Visual noise is like inflation. A constant tax on what you do. But you barely notice it. But it accumulates because it is constantly leading to slightly worse and more complex code. Since it is harder to focus on a noisy something in front of you, you ma…

__visuallyelegant__

Re: Reddit 1.0 was written in Lisp

#36

Post by mchaver »

fnordsensei wrote: post #13
mchaver wrote: post #12

So I've read that they wrote it in Lisp at Paul Graham's request or to win favor. Does anyone know if writing your startup code in Lisp still has that benefit?

As someone who’s been involved in both, it’s not like the language you pick doesn’t make a difference, but I’d say that there are other factors that vastly overshadow it. For example, one thing we were told when choosing to write in a lisp was that we’d have problems finding developers. It turned out to be true in that we received fewer applications, but compared to the same process with a more mainstream language, I…

Thanks for the insight. I've had a similar experience with using Haskell. It is a smaller pool of developers, but they tend to be higher quality on average.

Re: Reddit 1.0 was written in Lisp

#37

Post by littlestymaar »

codetrotter wrote: post #32
winrid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was chosen because at the time because python was much more mature and productive. They didnt use Django, but as an example Django is still more productive than any Node framework I've tried thus far, too, and we have types now. :)

NodeJS didn't even exist when Reddit started using Python, as far as I can tell. Initial release of NodeJS was May 27, 2009; 14 years ago. Swartz was involved in the development of Reddit until he departed from the company in 2007. And we know that parts of the Python code for Reddit was written by Swartz.

Wow, that sounds so early to adopt Python!

Re: Reddit 1.0 was written in Lisp

#38

Post by littlestymaar »

colordrops wrote: post #17
wudangmonk wrote: post #15

The current reddit seems to be written in js/python. I can see the logic behind js since its a lot easier to find devs and thanks to all the hard work of the engineers behind v8 its not a slow language. I do not understand why python was chosen though. If you need more speed you would go with c++ and not python which is the slowest popular language. Anyone got any insight into why python was chosen?.

I imagine because it's obviously "fast enough" performance-wise, and an order of magnitude faster dev-wise and hiring-wise.

Not fast enough to keep their operational at bay though.

Re: Reddit 1.0 was written in Lisp

#40

Post by prirai »

susam wrote: post #16

MathB.in, a simple pastebin for mathematical snippets, went in the opposite direction. It was first written in PHP and then later rewritten in Common Lisp. See https://susam.net/blog/mathbin-turns-ten.html for the full story.

I've tried mathb and it feels amazing and blazing fast. Perhaps the best way to go for typing in quick snippets and sharing with others.
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