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Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

thewalrus.ca

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Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#31

Post by throwaway22032 »

boredumb wrote: post #3

I think all the alarmist language is doing a massive disservice to environmental concerns for the reason the author is portraying but also a much different reason where a lot of people tend to greet hysterics with absolute doubt and discern. When environmentalists decided instead of having a real public conversation and resorting to what a lot of people perceive as the people screaming on the corner about the end tim…

I agree with this.

I don't believe that guys like e.g. Just Stop Oil in the UK are genuine people.

There might be some who got taken in by the movement and have good intentions, but the actual antics that go on just turn off literally everyone I know, to the extent that the entire environmental movement is now seen in a bad light.

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#32

Post by swader999 »

exitb wrote: post #19
swader999 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We dealt with the ozone hole fairly well. There hasn't been total nuclear war. The Netherlands is ten feet under sea level and does fine. Polar bears and all other bears are absolutely thriving.

Neither of these things required any change from regular people. In fact, today many people say that ozone hole just disappeared, because the changes needed were so transparent, no one even noticed. Is there a way people can continue their normal lives, but still eliminate the green house gasses emissions?

We won't reduce emissions unless there's a massive reduction in population. Otherwise normal people will adapt. Less people will die if the planet warms more. Extreme cold events kill more than heat waves do and that's even without including the seasonal flu and cardiac events related to the cold.

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#33

Post by CalRobert »

version_five wrote: post #22
boredumb wrote: post #3

I think all the alarmist language is doing a massive disservice to environmental concerns for the reason the author is portraying but also a much different reason where a lot of people tend to greet hysterics with absolute doubt and discern. When environmentalists decided instead of having a real public conversation and resorting to what a lot of people perceive as the people screaming on the corner about the end tim…

A big problem is there's no vocal positive or optimistic environmental movement. What gets attention are doomsday prophesies and people using the environment to push their political beliefs. It's almost impossible to get everyone on board with negativity. You just get a base of true believers while alienating everyone else, as you say. We need to push positive solutions (nuclear power and carbon capture) that aren't…

There's solarpunk, at least.

Also, I think there's optimism in people talking about how living a happier, more social life can also be one that happens to be lower in carbon intensity. I currently live in a very car-dependent detached house on an island (so reliant on planes to go anywhere) and am viewing flats now in a place where I can live car-free and go places via train.

And on top of all that, every time I have lived in a place where I could walk, bike, or take public transit, I was happier, healthier, and saw my friends _much_ more. But people have been sold a lie that living near their friends and being able to take a train or bus places is a "downgrade".

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#34

Post by throwaway22032 »

derefr wrote: post #21
exitb wrote: post #9

While I support the efforts to prevent and reverse the environmental damage we're causing, personally I don't believe they'll really succeed. It seems that human society is fundamentally incapable of acting in a coordinated way against a global, long term threat. So at a certain point convincing people to take the bus instead of a car, specifically because that will save the planet, starts to seem like a lie. It's no…

Why would "convincing people to take the bus instead of a car" require coordinated action? Just stop letting them buy gas. (Where by "them" I mean individual passenger-vehicle drivers. Continue to allow commercial vehicles to buy gas, but require that they show their commercial-vehicle license at the register.) A country could do it; or it could be done city by city with municipal bylaws to act only upon the worst po…

So it's Monday morning, the UK government announces that petrol and diesel cars are no longer. They make clear that this is permanent.

A ton of people now have vehicles that are basically scrap metal, they've lost tens of thousands overnight. There are physically not enough EVs, or charging infrastructure, or maybe even the grid capacity in order for people to switch.

By 10am, immigration lawyers' phones around the world are off the hook.

If you phase it, then you're just describing what is already happening, this is what coordinated action looks like.

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#35

Post by baremetal »

derefr wrote: post #21
exitb wrote: post #9

While I support the efforts to prevent and reverse the environmental damage we're causing, personally I don't believe they'll really succeed. It seems that human society is fundamentally incapable of acting in a coordinated way against a global, long term threat. So at a certain point convincing people to take the bus instead of a car, specifically because that will save the planet, starts to seem like a lie. It's no…

Why would "convincing people to take the bus instead of a car" require coordinated action? Just stop letting them buy gas. (Where by "them" I mean individual passenger-vehicle drivers. Continue to allow commercial vehicles to buy gas, but require that they show their commercial-vehicle license at the register.) A country could do it; or it could be done city by city with municipal bylaws to act only upon the worst po…

Meanwhile China is bringing on a new coal plant every week. Actually, 2 new plants a week [1]. But you suggest we stop selling gas to people.

https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/china-permits-two-...

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#36

Post by spywaregorilla »

CalRobert wrote: post #30

I wish we had a better word or phrase to encapsulate "the rate of change in our planetary systems has increase, and will continue to increase, with greater and greater disruptions and crises as time goes on" Basically taking second derivative of crises.

Accelerating

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#37

Post by [deleted] »

exitb wrote: post #9

While I support the efforts to prevent and reverse the environmental damage we're causing, personally I don't believe they'll really succeed. It seems that human society is fundamentally incapable of acting in a coordinated way against a global, long term threat. So at a certain point convincing people to take the bus instead of a car, specifically because that will save the planet, starts to seem like a lie. It's no…

[deleted]

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#38

Post by swader999 »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #36
CalRobert wrote: post #30

I wish we had a better word or phrase to encapsulate "the rate of change in our planetary systems has increase, and will continue to increase, with greater and greater disruptions and crises as time goes on" Basically taking second derivative of crises.

Accelerating

But it hasn't. Sea level rise and extreme weather events are not on an accelerating trend. Hurricanes for example. Fires in the twenties and forties were much worse. North America is greener now more than ever in the last two hundred years.

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#39

Post by boredumb »

awestroke wrote: post #29
boredumb wrote: post #3

I think all the alarmist language is doing a massive disservice to environmental concerns for the reason the author is portraying but also a much different reason where a lot of people tend to greet hysterics with absolute doubt and discern. When environmentalists decided instead of having a real public conversation and resorting to what a lot of people perceive as the people screaming on the corner about the end tim…

Communicating the impending doom of man-made climate change had been done in all possible shapes and forms since the 1970s. The approach does not matter, because the truth is too uncomfortable no matter how it's worded. If non-alarmist language is used, then nobody cares. If alarmist langauage is used, people like you compare scientists to flat earthers. Don't criticise the messengers if you don't like the message.

If you use alarmist language you can rile up and entice a lot of agreeable people but rarely effective people.

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#40

Post by JimtheCoder »

CalRobert wrote: post #27
boredumb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think many people were under the impression Al Gore was having a real public conversation. His books and movies fall squarely into the "alarmist" category.

In what sense?

Didn't he say we would all be underwater by 2010 or something? I didn't see the movie...
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