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Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

nytimes.com

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Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#31

Post by gsatic »

peterfirefly wrote: post #16
martopix wrote: post #5

For those who did not grow up like me in Berlusconi's Italy, he was an interesting character and in many ways a precursor of today's politics. When Trump came to rise, I felt many aspects were similar: both very rich entrepreneurs, arrogant personalities, a tendency to go against well established rules, personal attacks on opponents, an admiration for strongmen (Berlusconi had a clear crush on Putin), tax creativity,…

What many people outside of Italy don't understand is how crazy the left side of politics in Italy was (and still is). Italy had a looong period (that arguably hasn't ended yet) in which there were no good choices to vote for: either corrupt Berlusconi or Communists (who were also corrupt). Meloni has so far been a pleasant surprise. I didn't have any positive expectations when she became PM but she seems to be doing…

Thinking about it...the left doesn't seem to have entrepreneurs in political leadership positions. Can't think of anyone World over.

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#32

Post by stefantalpalaru »

cinntaile wrote: post #12
jll29 wrote: post #8

Berlusconi was said to have had ties to organized crime, going back to his time as a real estate lawyer. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/04/silvio-berlusc...

Aren't politicians with ties to the mafia quite common in Italy?

[dead]

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#33

Post by peoplefromibiza »

peterfirefly wrote: post #16
martopix wrote: post #5

For those who did not grow up like me in Berlusconi's Italy, he was an interesting character and in many ways a precursor of today's politics. When Trump came to rise, I felt many aspects were similar: both very rich entrepreneurs, arrogant personalities, a tendency to go against well established rules, personal attacks on opponents, an admiration for strongmen (Berlusconi had a clear crush on Putin), tax creativity,…

What many people outside of Italy don't understand is how crazy the left side of politics in Italy was (and still is). Italy had a looong period (that arguably hasn't ended yet) in which there were no good choices to vote for: either corrupt Berlusconi or Communists (who were also corrupt). Meloni has so far been a pleasant surprise. I didn't have any positive expectations when she became PM but she seems to be doing…

> in which there were no good choices to vote for: either corrupt Berlusconi or Communists (who were also corrupt).

That's a pretty bad description of the situation in Italy.

First of all we (I am from Italy, I voted in 1994 when Berlusconi bootstrapped his political career) have a large number of parties.

In 1994 there were at least 20 symbols grouped in 2 main coalitions.

Secondly, the communist were already a thing of the past, they dissolved in 3 different groups in 1992, but communists in Italy have a strong tradition and have been the backbone of our democracy.

Last but not least, the left in Italy is divided in an infinite number of movements and parties, communists were historically the largest one but Italy has a Socialist party that is separated from the Communists.

p.s. corruption of the Communists (as a political party) has never been proved anywhere.

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#34

Post by stefantalpalaru »

peterfirefly wrote: post #16
martopix wrote: post #5

For those who did not grow up like me in Berlusconi's Italy, he was an interesting character and in many ways a precursor of today's politics. When Trump came to rise, I felt many aspects were similar: both very rich entrepreneurs, arrogant personalities, a tendency to go against well established rules, personal attacks on opponents, an admiration for strongmen (Berlusconi had a clear crush on Putin), tax creativity,…

What many people outside of Italy don't understand is how crazy the left side of politics in Italy was (and still is). Italy had a looong period (that arguably hasn't ended yet) in which there were no good choices to vote for: either corrupt Berlusconi or Communists (who were also corrupt). Meloni has so far been a pleasant surprise. I didn't have any positive expectations when she became PM but she seems to be doing…

[dead]

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#35

Post by [deleted] »

casenmgreen wrote: post #19

It's a terrible thing to say this of a man, or someone who has died, but thank God. I mean, it might well by the end he was been pretty aged in his mind and was being used or fooled or had lost the plot : his comments about Ukraine were staggering, appalling aberrations you never want to hear from someone with considerable public stature in any country.

[deleted]

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#36

Post by __void »

martopix wrote: post #5

For those who did not grow up like me in Berlusconi's Italy, he was an interesting character and in many ways a precursor of today's politics. When Trump came to rise, I felt many aspects were similar: both very rich entrepreneurs, arrogant personalities, a tendency to go against well established rules, personal attacks on opponents, an admiration for strongmen (Berlusconi had a clear crush on Putin), tax creativity,…

it will be the biggest meme week for us Italians, there are already incredible pearls on telegram

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#37

Post by boeingUH60 »

bilekas wrote: post #2

This is really sad actually. Whatever you think about him, you can't deny he lived life to the maximum!

Everyone has a different definition of living like to the maximum. For one person, it’s having lots of money and your personal harem like Berlusconi. For another, it’s spending time with kids and grandkids. For another, it’s playing video games all day!

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#39

Post by throw310822 »

martopix wrote: post #5

For those who did not grow up like me in Berlusconi's Italy, he was an interesting character and in many ways a precursor of today's politics. When Trump came to rise, I felt many aspects were similar: both very rich entrepreneurs, arrogant personalities, a tendency to go against well established rules, personal attacks on opponents, an admiration for strongmen (Berlusconi had a clear crush on Putin), tax creativity,…

> When Trump came to rise, I felt many aspects were similar: both very rich entrepreneurs, arrogant personalities ....

And you forgot the knee-jerk reactions from the left, which reduced itself to a role of a spectator with the index finger raised and perpetually shouting "no, you can't do that"- applied to just anything he said or did [1]. I have seen the same with Trump. Some part of the population (including me) can't really stand the perpetually scandalised, self-appointed guardians of good manners, and will become disgusted by both sides equally.

1) for example, once he dared to say "it would be better to consult a second doctor before undergoing a risky or debilitating surgical procedure"- that apparently was a scandal, too.

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#40

Post by intellectronica »

casenmgreen wrote: post #19

It's a terrible thing to say this of a man, or someone who has died, but thank God. I mean, it might well by the end he was been pretty aged in his mind and was being used or fooled or had lost the plot : his comments about Ukraine were staggering, appalling aberrations you never want to hear from someone with considerable public stature in any country.

To his credit it has to be said that he saved the Italian tax payer a lot of money on funeral costs by undergoing embalmment at his own expense while still alive.
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