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Re: undefined

#31

Post by plondon514 »

luuuzeta wrote: post #22
plondon514 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could see there being a future course about binary on codeamigo actually. I'm not saying people shouldn't learn the fundamentals of computing, rather, it's not knowledge that's a requirement to have before building most modern applications. Before it was "learn C before learning Python" but some people didn't love that either...I guess my point is, we've been moving to higher and higher abstractions ever since comp…

How are courses created? Who creates them? >Made with in How did all the haze treats you yesterday?

My friend/co-founder and I wrote these courses.

Thanks for asking. I didn't leave my apartment. Hope everyone who is forced to be outside for work is safe, and this passes soon.

Re: undefined

#32

Post by [deleted] »

l__l wrote: post #7

> Today's developers didn't learn binary before learning Python, why should you learn how to code without the most modern tools? This phrasing makes me wary. There's a difference between being self-taught, and not even bothering to teach yourself the absolute fundamentals of computing, like binary...

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#33

Post by joshmanders »

Kalium wrote: post #25
joshmanders wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning binary and knowing what binary is are two separate things. I don't think you need to learn binary to learn to code. Been doing this for 25 years working at some big name companies, I don't know binary other than 1 is on, 0 is off. I'm starting to feel like this whole notion that newbies can't come in and learn say React or modern JavaScript without having to go all the way back to that day in 1995 when they…

You're absolutely right, it's definitely gatekeeping. That said, there's also a point in here that's often underappreciated. There's a big difference between someone who learns today's modern tools from nothing and someone who has a good foundation learning today's modern tools. I think it's fundamentally one of approach. The former treats coding as a trade where you just need to learn a few tools. The latter treats…

I've found in my years mentoring and teaching that showing something is much better at keeping them learning and interested than "Sit down and read 30 years of out dated documentation and coding practices just so you can feel the pain and agony I had, then and only then when you've proven yourself can you spit out that hello world on the screen, filthy scum!"

Give them a codepen with modern React already bootstrapped so they can start just tinkering with it and changing things, man watch their EYES LIGHT UP at the possibilities... Every time I see this happen it takes me back to 1997 when I was first learning to build websites.

Re: undefined

#34

Post by askl »

_aaed wrote: post #11

"Today, almost 50% of code is written by AI" whats the source for this?

Apparently the site's own chatbot seems to disagree with the number.

> How much of all code in general is written by AI?

Answer: Very little code is written by AI. Most code is written by people.

Re: undefined

#35

Post by Swizec »

l__l wrote: post #7

> Today's developers didn't learn binary before learning Python, why should you learn how to code without the most modern tools? This phrasing makes me wary. There's a difference between being self-taught, and not even bothering to teach yourself the absolute fundamentals of computing, like binary...

> There's a difference between being self-taught, and not even bothering to teach yourself the absolute fundamentals of computing, like binary

Been doing this for almost 30 years now, about 15 of those professionally. I think the last time I used binary was in a microcontrollers class in high school.

Even in college, yeah we talked a lot about binary, we learned the single most useful thing in my career – truth tables – and we dived deep into how CPUs toss bits around. Did we ever use binary for anything practical? No of course not, that’s what the compiler is for.

I mean I guess the real question is: What does “learn binary” even mean? Knowing it exists? That’s easy. Knowing that your code is eventually all binary? Yeah great. Knowing how NAND gates and such work? Well that’s discrete mathematics, bool algebra, quantum physics, circuit design, and whatever field of math talks about translating problems from one to another, not “binary”. Being able to calculate, by hand, numbers from binary to octal and decimal? Meh you can have a computer do that or google the algorithm when you need it. Does “learning binary” mean memorizing the ASCII table so you can read hex dumps or whatever? Maybe, doubt a lot of modern engineers still do that tho.

Re: undefined

#36

Post by rocketbop »

joshmanders wrote: post #20
freedomben wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know binary other than 1 is on, 2 is off. Either an epic troll or a great illustration :-D

haha you caught that before I fixed it, that my friend is the result of my failure of math in my great edumacation in the US public school system hahaha. Also it's 9am and I just woke up a bit ago.

You should have left it as it was :)

Re: undefined

#37

Post by echelon »

asow92 wrote: post #24
l__l wrote: post #7

> Today's developers didn't learn binary before learning Python, why should you learn how to code without the most modern tools? This phrasing makes me wary. There's a difference between being self-taught, and not even bothering to teach yourself the absolute fundamentals of computing, like binary...

Seconded. And I'd posit that learning CS theory and fundamentals like binary shouldn't be too difficult if the individual is savvy enough to grok the finer points of Python.

I dislike this perspective.

I taught myself programming at age 12, well before undergrad.

If I'd been forced to learn binary before I could make websites and games, I would have given up. I might have even avoided programming forever.

I think the very first thing someone should learn is the fastest path to build something that interests and delights them. Theory can come later, when they're ready to appreciate it.

Re: undefined

#38

Post by tester756 »

l__l wrote: post #7

> Today's developers didn't learn binary before learning Python, why should you learn how to code without the most modern tools? This phrasing makes me wary. There's a difference between being self-taught, and not even bothering to teach yourself the absolute fundamentals of computing, like binary...

I'll argue - bitwise operations, they're fundamentals too, but

If you arent working close to hardware, then for example doing bitwise operations may be really rare.

I don't think I've met a problem that required them even once during my first few years as SE.

I've had CS degree and years of experience and I werent proficient with those, I needed to write it down in steps

and then I started working closer to hardware where those operations were common and I've learned it

I don't even remember whether we were doing them in school

Re: undefined

#39

Post by hahamrfunnyguy »

l__l wrote: post #7

> Today's developers didn't learn binary before learning Python, why should you learn how to code without the most modern tools? This phrasing makes me wary. There's a difference between being self-taught, and not even bothering to teach yourself the absolute fundamentals of computing, like binary...

I don't really understand the hurdle to "learning binary". It's not necessary to understand how binary works to complete a hello world program, but I think it's something that you want to get a handle on pretty quickly.

If I recall correctly, we only spent a few minutes on it in a larger lesson about different schemes for representing numbers in Comp Sci I. I don't think I've performed binary arithmetic since that class, but it's good to know how it works and I could always look up/figure out how to do those calculations again if I needed to.

Re: undefined

#40

Post by minimaxir »

_aaed wrote: post #11

"Today, almost 50% of code is written by AI" whats the source for this?

It's roughly a figure GitHub has stated with Copilot: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/events/FY-2023/Morg...

> Scott Guthrie: I think you're going to see – I mean, I guess the way to look at it would be what is the productivity win you're giving to the business, whether it's around making an employee more productive or making a specific business process more effective. Take the example of, say, GitHub Copilot, since that's a product that's GA today. We're now seeing the developers using GitHub Copilot are 55% more productive with it on tasks, and that's sort of measured by independent studies. And 40% of the code they're checking in is now AI-generated and unmodified.

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