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Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

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Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#31

Post by gordian-not »

lelanthran wrote: post #21
oofnik wrote: post #7

Child sacrifice hooks into some very deep and dark aspects of human psychology that we have yet to unpack. There is a reason that this practice crops up in various civilizations seemingly independently, and it is not a pretty one - at least not by contemporary moral sensibilities. It is impossible to understand the biblical narrative of the binding of Isaac, for example, without addressing the context in which such a…

> Child sacrifice hooks into some very deep and dark aspects of human psychology that we have yet to unpack. Maybe not. Humans first do something practical, and then use rituals and tradition to justify it. Here's an alternative scenario: In an age where abortion had a higher chance of killing the woman than childbirth, this was the only practical abortion. It's only after the fact that it gets justified as a sacrifi…

That’s not the only practical abortion, abortion existed in ancient times too. However, even after birth there were easier methods, infant exposure was common and is far easier for parents than sacrifice

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#32

Post by lynx23 »

gettodachoppa wrote: post #15

[flagged]

It is about time that we call out soft sciences for what they are. Pretty much a hoax and a way to escape real work when going to university. Two of my partners both have academic degrees in soft sciences, one even made it to a PhD. And both pretty much lack understanding of the scientiific process. This is horrifying, because society treats them as if they should know.

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#33

Post by AllegedAlec »

miroljub wrote: post #14
AllegedAlec wrote: post #2

Turns out that Cato the Censor was right.

[flagged]

> No, Cato was not right. He was a racist, war criminal and very corrupt politician.

Even if he was all of that, which I'd dispute or at least question, that doesn't mean he wasn't right

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#34

Post by thworp »

oofnik wrote: post #7

Child sacrifice hooks into some very deep and dark aspects of human psychology that we have yet to unpack. There is a reason that this practice crops up in various civilizations seemingly independently, and it is not a pretty one - at least not by contemporary moral sensibilities. It is impossible to understand the biblical narrative of the binding of Isaac, for example, without addressing the context in which such a…

Carl Jung had some interesting ideas on this topic, his book "Psychology and Religion" is a very thought-provoking work.

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#35

Post by fastball »

tomohawk wrote: post #26
gettodachoppa wrote: post #15

[flagged]

Carthage was a Phoenician colony. The Phoenicians (Sidon, Tyre) were independently described by other cultures as having a national cult that sacrificed children. These descriptions are preserved in the Bible. The struggle with this cult was a significant formative experience of Judaism that lasted many generations.

Societies have also been known to completely fabricate horrible anecdotes about their neighbors / nemeses.

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#36

Post by easytiger »

Veen wrote: post #27
gettodachoppa wrote: post #15

[flagged]

That's a fine skeptical attitude, but to put it into practice you'd have to be familiar with the relevant scholarship, read the paper, independently verify its arguments and claims, and come to an informed conclusion. You'd also have to be familiar with the standards of evidence used in the relevant fields, which aren't the same as the standards of evidence used in the hard sciences—they can't be because it's largely…

[flagged]

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#37

Post by gordian-not »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #10
oofnik wrote: post #7

Child sacrifice hooks into some very deep and dark aspects of human psychology that we have yet to unpack. There is a reason that this practice crops up in various civilizations seemingly independently, and it is not a pretty one - at least not by contemporary moral sensibilities. It is impossible to understand the biblical narrative of the binding of Isaac, for example, without addressing the context in which such a…

Abandoning/exposing infants (especially girls) was very widespread in the ancient word. It’s possible that ‘sacrifice’ was just a way to justify it through some ritual. This didn’t really change untill the chirch started equating it with murder.

In ancient religions, and especially Canaanite there was a great emphasis on bringing your best offerings to god, best fruits, most expensive wine and top meat.

It will be unusual that for children the unwanted ones suddenly are considered a good offering

Re: Ancient Carthaginians did sacrifice their children (2014)

#39

Post by easytiger »

rsynnott wrote: post #24
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My growing distrust of soft sciences over the past few years means that this article did not move the needle in me to believe Carthage practiced child sacrifice, not one millimeter. There is a trove of independent historic stories and tales about child sacrifice in Carthage from Plutarch, Plato and even the Bible. In some sense I think it would more obvious than not to assume that child sacrifice did take place.

Couple of issues there; you’d have to question the independence (at the remove of time it’s impossible to know if there was a single source), and if you’re going to take attestation by multiple ancient writers as strong evidence of a thing, well, you’re going to end up believing some odd, and often contradictory, things. That sort of evidence isn’t nothing, but _in itself_ you probably need to be very careful with it…

It's the quotation of source material love the most about this comment
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