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Why are humans never satisfied? [video]

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Re: Why are humans never satisfied? [video]

#31

Post by monkeynotes »

wallfacer wrote: post #22
monkeynotes wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is substantiated, we absolutely desire our needs. I can't think of one single desire that does not demand satisfaction. Perhaps I am not understanding something.

It is not substantiated that all desires arise from an associated, achievable need. I need food so I desire food and I eat to satisfy it. I desire to have perfect love and relationships, but can’t seem to achieve it. But if I cannot find a perfect slice of pizza, g-d exists and another world follows this one where the pizza is truly satisfying? Believe whatever you like, but realize Faith is required for this to foll…

I see, the objection is specifically levelled at the mystic side of what he's saying. That's fair.

Re: Why are humans never satisfied? [video]

#32

Post by knorker »

randrus wrote: post #21
knorker wrote: post #8

The most successful life form on a planet will probably always ask themselves this. Because if we'd been happy remaining primitive then we wouldn't have become advanced. We were not happy after inventing technology (not with technology either, but we thought we would be). Evolutionarily: The people who were happy without children, or another child, or a second wife to make more children, were not as successful in pro…

So ... the satisfied drop out of the gene pool and we're sampling from the lineage of the unsatisfied. Survivorship bias?

Yeah, with a bit of anthropic principle mixed in.

Re: Why are humans never satisfied? [video]

#33

Post by feoren »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #14
mach1ne wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being attributed to CS Lewis I’d hope it’s more metaphorical than theoretical.

As an atheist, I'm mostly glad I never met the man. I think that if I had, remaining an atheist might be more difficult than it is. Even reading his works seems risky at times. Not that his arguments are particularly rational, mind you. He was just that damned good.

Funny: as an atheist, I have no a-priori goal to remain an atheist. In fact I would love it if someone could come along and convince me that their religion was correct. Imagine how comforting that would be: the surety of an afterlife! Alas, it is not to be, because even written in C.S. Lewis's flowery language, it's all obviously bullshit. Reading Tolkein may make me wish I lived in Rivendell but it's never going to convince me to worship Eru Illuvatar.

Re: Why are humans never satisfied? [video]

#34

Post by feoren »

yowzadave wrote: post #29
monkeynotes wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is substantiated, we absolutely desire our needs. I can't think of one single desire that does not demand satisfaction. Perhaps I am not understanding something.

In the case that Lewis is alluding to (an unsatisfied yearning for spiritual fulfillment), the argument is tautological. If God is real in the way he imagines it, the presence of this spiritual yearning is a kind of evidence. If God is not real in the way he imagines, the presence of this spiritual yearning is evidence that the assertion is false.

Also: spiritual yearning can in fact be satisfied by spiritual practices. So the conclusion doesn't follow even if you accept his premise.

Re: Why are humans never satisfied? [video]

#36

Post by adversaryIdiot »

monkeynotes wrote: post #30
amatic wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought so too, but it makes more sense to me that "stop desiring things" is a koan, and not a literal instruction. A koan is like a little paradox, a word problem that a student needs to solve before being allowed to the next "level". The solution is that you cannot stop desiring. Even if you try very hard, you will still have, at the very least, the desire to stop desiring. Source: I've been listening to Alan Wat…

> Even if you try very hard This is the paradox, while you are "trying" as you have observed, you are still desiring. Letting go of desire is effortless.

Thats so paradoxically cryptic haha

Re: Why are humans never satisfied? [video]

#37

Post by shrimp_emoji »

adversaryIdiot wrote: post #36
monkeynotes wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if you try very hard This is the paradox, while you are "trying" as you have observed, you are still desiring. Letting go of desire is effortless.

Thats so paradoxically cryptic haha

It's zen meditation stuff.

You have to accept, but detach from, the feeling of desire. You're not trying to fight it; you accept but cease to identify with it.

The monk feels the flames consuming his flesh, but he ceases to identify with the sensation, allowing him to sit there, motionless, before dying. (Granted, that's some hardcore non-identification.)

Re: Why are humans never satisfied? [video]

#38

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

feoren wrote: post #33
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an atheist, I'm mostly glad I never met the man. I think that if I had, remaining an atheist might be more difficult than it is. Even reading his works seems risky at times. Not that his arguments are particularly rational, mind you. He was just that damned good.

Funny: as an atheist, I have no a-priori goal to remain an atheist. In fact I would love it if someone could come along and convince me that their religion was correct. Imagine how comforting that would be: the surety of an afterlife! Alas, it is not to be, because even written in C.S. Lewis's flowery language, it's all obviously bullshit. Reading Tolkein may make me wish I lived in Rivendell but it's never going to…

It does actually sound like you do have this a-priori goal. Additionally, it seems that you might have bad taste in literature.

Re: Why are humans never satisfied? [video]

#39

Post by feoren »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #38
feoren wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny: as an atheist, I have no a-priori goal to remain an atheist. In fact I would love it if someone could come along and convince me that their religion was correct. Imagine how comforting that would be: the surety of an afterlife! Alas, it is not to be, because even written in C.S. Lewis's flowery language, it's all obviously bullshit. Reading Tolkein may make me wish I lived in Rivendell but it's never going to…

It does actually sound like you do have this a-priori goal. Additionally, it seems that you might have bad taste in literature.

> It does actually sound like you do have this a-priori goal

I don't wake up in the morning and say to myself "I sure hope I continue to believe that the Earth is round by the end of the day!" That's crazy: I have no vested interest in that belief. I believe the Earth is round because the evidence is overwhelming and the contra-evidence is unconvincing. I'm not worried that someone is going to come along and erroneously convince me the world is actually flat -- I trust my own judgement more than that. Unless, of course, the world actually is flat, in which case I'd want someone to convince me of it! It's the truth I have a vested interest in, whatever that truth actually is.

> Additionally, it seems that you might have bad taste in literature

It sounds like it's important to you that you make sure to not like mainstream things, so that you can look down on people who do. I encourage you to get over this. The more things you let yourself enjoy, the more fun you have in life. And you'll like yourself more too, knowing you're not being as much of a condescending prick. Trust me; I've been there.

Re: Why are humans never satisfied? [video]

#40

Post by doctorh »

feoren wrote: post #33
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an atheist, I'm mostly glad I never met the man. I think that if I had, remaining an atheist might be more difficult than it is. Even reading his works seems risky at times. Not that his arguments are particularly rational, mind you. He was just that damned good.

Funny: as an atheist, I have no a-priori goal to remain an atheist. In fact I would love it if someone could come along and convince me that their religion was correct. Imagine how comforting that would be: the surety of an afterlife! Alas, it is not to be, because even written in C.S. Lewis's flowery language, it's all obviously bullshit. Reading Tolkein may make me wish I lived in Rivendell but it's never going to…

I was a former atheist for over 10 years, and I also had a strong desire for Christianity to be true. I would humbly suggest that you simply ask God to give you the gift of faith. You might be surprised.
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