Just please don't decarbonize my swords. I need them for work.
Now I want to know what you do for work that requires swords...
Fencing teacher?
How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
31–40 of 85 posts
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#32Is everyone decarbonising? India, China? I get the feeling they're laughing all that way to the bank. (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along)
There are Wikipedia articles for 2015 Indian heat wave (2,500 dead), 2016 heat wave, 2019 heat wave, 2022 heat wave, and the current ongoing 2023 heat wave. 2021 Henan flood killed hundreds and forced evacuation of 800k people. Imagine what you want, but nobody's laughing any more.
Prisoner's dilemma. What better way to pay for flood walls and air conditioning, than profitable high-emission industry.
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
The climate doesn’t care about per capita. The developing world has the majority of the population, so the majority of additional CO2 will be coming from there.
Fun way to look at it, you at the north give us a lot of planned obsolence goods in exchange for our monies. North even gets into politics pushing developing countries infrastructure towards oil economies. and then, we consume what you led us to, and suddenly we're the bad guys.
Humanity is the bad guy. Well, the planet doesn’t care. It’s about how much climate change we want to deal with.
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
> (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along) It's worth doing even if others don't. Especially for the wealthy countries -- the poor countries emit relatively little carbon per capita. The new energy transition is from op ex to cap ex. Looks expensive in the short term but a big win in the medium and long term. Plus you get the benefit of reduced emissions. Sure, other people do, but even if you're selfis…
The climate doesn’t care about per capita. The developing world has the majority of the population, so the majority of additional CO2 will be coming from there.
In effect you‘re saying that countries that are poor today must not be allowed to reach the level of western countries. I don‘t have a good word for it but that‘s a very specific worldview.
If we believe that every country has the right to develop, than the poorest countries emission will increase. Better technology will flatten that increase but those are expensive. Wealthy countries pioneering the widespread use of these technologies will reduce cost and allow developing countries to deploy them in the future.
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#35One thing I've been sort of curious about with non-carbothermal iron ore reduction is whether it could bring back wrought iron. Wrought iron disappeared around the 1960s due to high production costs — the crude product contains carbon, which must be removed by working — but iron produced with hydrogen or electricity will not have a chance to absorb carbon like this. There's more to it than that — you have to achieve…
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Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#36The first solar-powered steel mill was recently built in Pueblo, Colorado: https://gizmodo.com/the-world-s-first-solar-powered-steel-mi...
The last paragraph of this article sums up a trend I keep seeing in this industry I don't like: > But while decarbonizing heavy industry is a good thing, the folks behind this project are not my favorites. Lightsource BP is a joint venture between the steel company EVRAZ and the energy giant BP, as well as the utility giant Xcel Energy, which will provide the steel mill with fixed electricity rates through 2041. BP a…
You're right, omitting opinions would have made for a more informative piece.
Here's some other (probably better quality) links: - https://www.chieftain.com/story/news/2022/03/18/bighorn-sola... - https://www.constructiondive.com/news/worlds-largest-solar-p...
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
decarbonizing the industrial supply chains is pretty crucial because a lot of the other green infrastructure that's going to be needed to be built around the world is going to be less effective otherwise. If your green tech needs to run for years to simply claw back what was required to make it that is a huge issue.
> If your green tech needs to run for years to simply claw back what was required to make it that is a huge issue. An engineering mind would never prefer high risk authoritarian enforcement of theoretical solutions to solve a problem. You are reducing diversity to shoot yourself in the foot
Was the EPA a mistake because heavy industry without dumping loads of shit in the rivers was a theoretical solution that reduced diversity?
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not the 20th century anymore. China's per capita emissions are higher than you're letting on. Higher than some European countries.
Wow, China's per capita emissions were, in 2018, ahead of Israel, Ireland, New Zealand, Slovenia, Slovakia, Greece, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Spain, Denmark, Italy, the U.K., Hungary, Portugal, Turkey, France, Switzerland, Croatia, Sweden, Ukraine, Latvia, Romania...the list they're behind may be shorter [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...
I think those numbers lump the emissions from goods produced in china and exported to other countries in with the emissions from domestic consumption. So they are inflated by China's vast exports. Yet even if you use consumption based emissions, China was around Spain's numbers in 2016 and by now probably has overtaken quite a few of the European countries.
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
The climate doesn’t care about per capita. The developing world has the majority of the population, so the majority of additional CO2 will be coming from there.
In effect you‘re saying that countries that are poor today must not be allowed to reach the level of western countries. I don‘t have a good word for it but that‘s a very specific worldview. If we believe that every country has the right to develop, than the poorest countries emission will increase. Better technology will flatten that increase but those are expensive. Wealthy countries pioneering the widespread use of…
> In effect you‘re saying that countries that are poor today must not be allowed to reach the level of western countries. I don‘t have a good word for it but that‘s a very specific worldview.
Being charitable, it’d clearly be an environmental disaster if everyone in the world consumed oil at the per capita level of OECD countries. I imagine global oil consumption would multiply manyfold.
> Wealthy countries pioneering the widespread use of these technologies will reduce cost and allow developing countries to deploy them in the future.
I too used to think this, but it seems like most of the progress in solar has come from China. Similar with nuclear power plants.
Re: How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?
#40Is everyone decarbonising? India, China? I get the feeling they're laughing all that way to the bank. (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along)
> (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along) It's worth doing even if others don't. Especially for the wealthy countries -- the poor countries emit relatively little carbon per capita. The new energy transition is from op ex to cap ex. Looks expensive in the short term but a big win in the medium and long term. Plus you get the benefit of reduced emissions. Sure, other people do, but even if you're selfis…
It's worth doing especially if others don't.
Like whats the alternative: get into an arms race to see who can boil the oceans fastest? Oh but we'll make slightly more money than India from steel manufacturing so it will definitely be worth it?