Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years • Hacker News Board

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#31

Post by wolrah » Fri, May 12, 2023, 6:36 PM UTC

recursive wrote: post #12

skrtskrt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota's hybrid tech is and has been the best and most reliable for a very long time. I think it's a shame that the EV regulations and incentives (at least in America) are not as friendly for traditional hybrids and plug-in hybrids. They have basically zero downsides compared to full ICE or full EV, and would still make a massive dent in emissions. PHEVs in particular - most people are going under 100 miles a day, so…

> They have basically zero downsides They need oil changes. Some don't mind, but I do. It's a downside.

All machines of meaningful complexity need maintenance if you expect them to last, including EVs, and a fluid change that happens twice a year for most vehicles isn't exactly a huge inconvenience.

IMO getting under your vehicle twice a year is a good thing and more people should be encouraged to do it. Getting eyes on the stuff hidden underneath before it gets bad enough to start breaking is always useful.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#32

Post by jdiez17 » Fri, May 12, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

Very timely as just today we had multiple threads where commenters were decrying the EU for creating laws like the GDPR to protect people from negative consequences just like in this case, arguing that it slows innovation or some such.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#33

Post by oharapj » Fri, May 12, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #30

malikNF wrote: post #19

I hope regulators fine the hell out of these companies. Enough to make them think twice about offering these upload everything to the cloud services no one really asks for.

It's a simple equation: Revenue = (value of data per person) x (number of customers) - (probably of data loss) x (probability of fine) x (cost of fine). If that number is greater than zero, they'll do it, if it's less than zero, they won't.

I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#34

Post by mardifoufs » Fri, May 12, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

galangalalgol wrote: post #22

recursive wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have basically zero downsides They need oil changes. Some don't mind, but I do. It's a downside.

They often have no spare tire to fit the battery. Quite a few don't have battery thermal management, so the packs will degrade much more quickly. It seems like they have all the downsides.

No battery thermal management?? I thought no one did that after the disaster that was the original Nissan leaf's battery

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#35

Post by oh_sigh » Fri, May 12, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #30

malikNF wrote: post #19

I hope regulators fine the hell out of these companies. Enough to make them think twice about offering these upload everything to the cloud services no one really asks for.

It's a simple equation: Revenue = (value of data per person) x (number of customers) - (probably of data loss) x (probability of fine) x (cost of fine). If that number is greater than zero, they'll do it, if it's less than zero, they won't.

A simple equation but no one actually operates that way. Except for maybe auto manufacturers from late-90s books-turned-movies starring Brad Pitt and Edward Norton.

Most variables are impossible to accurately predict. e.g. "Cost/probability of fine" -> how do you model the cost of brand tarnishment?

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#36

Post by short_sells_poo » Fri, May 12, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

thewataccount wrote: post #23

Their privacy policy is wild and every customer is opted into the connect services by default. Interior images, exterior images, facial geometry, voice recordings, location/driving data, "multimedia screen data", https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230512182022/https://www.toyot...

> Interior images, exterior images, facial geometry, voice recordings,

This is an absolutely unbelievable level of privacy intrusion IMO. I 100% support very heavily fining this sort of behavior, otherwise it will continue to proliferate.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#37

Post by serf » Fri, May 12, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

lasermike026 wrote: post #26

meghan_rain wrote: post #3

Why does Toyota even have this data?

I'm sorry, what? No one thinks about what data is being sent back to the manufacturer when buying a car. Now I need to know what my car know and what is being transmitted back. It would be nice if I could turn off this functionality.

> No one thinks about what data is being sent back to the manufacturer when buying a car.

Chevrolet has had OnStar since 1996, and has sold data related to it for probably just as long -- this isn't some new phenomenon.

I remember these same arguments echoed back then -- but at least it was a unique happening at the time.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#38

Post by Dowwie » Fri, May 12, 2023, 6:41 PM UTC

That's not all that Toyota should be held responsible for. Corporate issues service bulletins about parts under warranty and their certified service centers ignore the warranties, charging customers full price for replacement. I caught a local service center doing just that in January of this year.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#39

Post by sumtechguy » Fri, May 12, 2023, 6:41 PM UTC

greenie_beans wrote: post #10

good lord. i'm so glad my toyota doesn't have any of those features. shout out to the lean method.

If it is anything after about 2012 it probably does. Also if this hack is out of the software I think it is, I am not surprised. Some of the main devs were more worried about what a function was named than how to make it work correctly and securely.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#40

Post by panax » Fri, May 12, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

lasermike026 wrote: post #26

meghan_rain wrote: post #3

Why does Toyota even have this data?

I'm sorry, what? No one thinks about what data is being sent back to the manufacturer when buying a car. Now I need to know what my car know and what is being transmitted back. It would be nice if I could turn off this functionality.

This is what I think about most when buying a car. This is why I plan on keeping my current car for as long as possible since it was one of the last Toyotas to not be connected to anything.