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The Missing App Economy (2022)

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31–40 of 66 posts

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#31
post #5

To paraphrase the article: with the Google-Apple mobile duopoly, consumers are stuck between a rock (web apps) and a hard place (native apps). It isn't in Apple's interest to allow web apps on iOS to have feature parity with native apps, because that's where Apple's moat is. It isn't in Google's interest to allow mobile web browsers the freedom to behave like desktop browsers (extensions and filesystem APIs), because…

Would the librem line of phones be an early attempt at what you describe?

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#32
post #19

I recommend spending some time on OnlyFans to see what social networks can look like without the App Store. Video fundraisers, paid messages, creator subscriptions, tips, interactive live streams and tiered subscriptions all work together to allow creators to flourish financially. Apple’s 30% rules cripples YouTube’s ability to imitate these features and even restricts the viability of these features for platforms li…

> Video fundraisers, paid messages, creator subscriptions, tips, interactive live streams and tiered subscriptions As a user, that doesn’t sound great to be honest.

Monetisation always hurts users, it’s just a matter of picking the least painful poison.

You probably don’t enjoy VPN adverts in the middle of your YouTube videos either, but people need to get paid somehow.

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#33

I recommend spending some time on OnlyFans to see what social networks can look like without the App Store. Video fundraisers, paid messages, creator subscriptions, tips, interactive live streams and tiered subscriptions all work together to allow creators to flourish financially. Apple’s 30% rules cripples YouTube’s ability to imitate these features and even restricts the viability of these features for platforms li…

The App Store doesn't prevent any of this (though, the App Store won't distribute porn) - it just requires a 30% cut. What's OnlyFan's cut of all those transactions? Youtube can imitate these features on it's website, where it can surely do a better job due to scale. Twitch does this - arguably OnlyFans is largely modelled on Twitch.

> just > 30%

30% is anything but just.

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#34

I recommend spending some time on OnlyFans to see what social networks can look like without the App Store. Video fundraisers, paid messages, creator subscriptions, tips, interactive live streams and tiered subscriptions all work together to allow creators to flourish financially. Apple’s 30% rules cripples YouTube’s ability to imitate these features and even restricts the viability of these features for platforms li…

Sure, I'm glad it works that way for them. However, I'm glad Apple's rules exist so I don't have to deal with those and low-quality apps. I'm in the 98% majority that's fine with not having xxx or crap apps in the app stores. Every time I use the android play store I'm just overwhelmed by the number of low quality crap.

Apple’s rules on social payments primarily affect content creators and other big tech orgs like FB/YT/TT.

Whether Apple allows adult content is a separate matter from whether Apple takes a 30% cut from bloggers and video makers who produce digital content in exchange for payment.

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#35

I recommend spending some time on OnlyFans to see what social networks can look like without the App Store. Video fundraisers, paid messages, creator subscriptions, tips, interactive live streams and tiered subscriptions all work together to allow creators to flourish financially. Apple’s 30% rules cripples YouTube’s ability to imitate these features and even restricts the viability of these features for platforms li…

The App Store doesn't prevent any of this (though, the App Store won't distribute porn) - it just requires a 30% cut. What's OnlyFan's cut of all those transactions? Youtube can imitate these features on it's website, where it can surely do a better job due to scale. Twitch does this - arguably OnlyFans is largely modelled on Twitch.

I find that people making these arguments need a villain to blame to $x million. Apple's privacy protections is an easy target for why they haven't made any of the $320 billion Apple has distributed to developers since the App Store creation.

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#36

I recommend spending some time on OnlyFans to see what social networks can look like without the App Store. Video fundraisers, paid messages, creator subscriptions, tips, interactive live streams and tiered subscriptions all work together to allow creators to flourish financially. Apple’s 30% rules cripples YouTube’s ability to imitate these features and even restricts the viability of these features for platforms li…

The App Store doesn't prevent any of this (though, the App Store won't distribute porn) - it just requires a 30% cut. What's OnlyFan's cut of all those transactions? Youtube can imitate these features on it's website, where it can surely do a better job due to scale. Twitch does this - arguably OnlyFans is largely modelled on Twitch.

Google says OnlyFans takes 20%. However, if you look at a saas business, the general metric for a well-run business is a 50% cost ratio. That means paying 30% instead of 1-ish percent for payments is actually 60% of profits in a well-run saas business. I suspect stripping/sex work has a lower cost than engineers, marketing, CS, computers, etc.

Which goes a long way to explaining the dearth of professional tools in the app stores.

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#37

I recommend spending some time on OnlyFans to see what social networks can look like without the App Store. Video fundraisers, paid messages, creator subscriptions, tips, interactive live streams and tiered subscriptions all work together to allow creators to flourish financially. Apple’s 30% rules cripples YouTube’s ability to imitate these features and even restricts the viability of these features for platforms li…

I'm trying to think where any of this is explicitly banned. You can do subscriptions with various tiers, various one time consumable purchases and various one time permanent purchases. And things like games make this a bit easier with the ability to buy generic in game currency that you can spend within the internal game store. On top of that, if the service is not 'digital' you can use your own payment infra and skip the %30 cut. Like Uber or buying physical goods from an e-commerce store.

Like video fundraisers, paid messages, creator subscriptions, tips, interactive paid streams and tiered subscriptions can be covered by consumable credit purchases and credit subscriptions. What are the explicit rules or history of rejections banning this?

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see hate for protocols or cryptography on HN. But I do see (a) skepticism about the actual decentralized (vs distributed) nature in practice (especially where the topic is financialized tech or even an end run around all the learning that's gone into the social codebase about finance). (b) realize that decentralization presented by things like the web are essentially "good enough" that capabilities are strong…

EDIT: Thanks for this comment — I edited the original for clarity. I'm talking about crypto as in Ethereum, which are designed to resist centralization. HN wrongly thinks of crypto as a financial system (which it can do, for good and bad reasons thanks to its permissionlessness), instead of a family of methods for making composable, decentralized protocols with built-in economics (blockchains).

> HN wrongly thinks of crypto as a financial system (which it can do, for good and bad reasons thanks to its permissionlessness),

That's how it's implemented in real life, so that's what people's takeaway is going to be. What was the last dApp anybody used that wasn't a pay-to-play game, or crypto marketplace?

You may as well say communism is theoretically sound, but people will continue to get hung up on the fact that's it's real-world implementations have always led to despotic leadership.

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#39
post #17

Honestly I prefer a native app to a web app because the web browser is basically an O/S running inside an O/S and there's a annoying amount of gain mismatch / poor coupling between the two. Native (non electron) apps on the Mac just integrate with the other OS capabilities (e.g. text selection, drag/drop all work consistently and interoperate properly; keystrokes, shortcuts, system context menu & integrations, etc ju…

> I don't like apps that are just a wrapper to a web view...

Devs are just too aware that they do it to maximise profits and not to maximise UX quality. It's just like Linux guys building console tools and pretending they are better than a (good) UI.

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#40
post #17

Honestly I prefer a native app to a web app because the web browser is basically an O/S running inside an O/S and there's a annoying amount of gain mismatch / poor coupling between the two. Native (non electron) apps on the Mac just integrate with the other OS capabilities (e.g. text selection, drag/drop all work consistently and interoperate properly; keystrokes, shortcuts, system context menu & integrations, etc ju…

There are apps today that are using a mix of web and local capabilities.

- photopea.com - import local image, make edits, export back to local storage

- tldraw.com - same

- demo.logseq.com - best example I've found yet. No login required, you can import a local folder of Markdown files, and have the Logseq web app interpret them as a set of backlinked notes.

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