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You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

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Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#31

Post by emeraldd »

leetharris wrote: post #10
DanHulton wrote: post #3

Every team I've worked on that has switched from Kanban to Scrum has slowed down and never regained the previous velocity. Further, many of the promised benefits of Scrum (things like better insight and predictability about delivery rates) never materialized. Every team that I've worked on that has switched from Scrum to Kanban saw an immediate improvement in speed that never disappeared. Once, just once, I was lucky…

Yes but raw velocity is not the only thing that matters. For some projects it is, but for many the accountability of Scrum + the grouping helps with dependency management across an organization.

Scrum does not provide accountability. It creates the illusion of accountability while creating artificial touch points that effectively become the only time anyone thinks about what's going on. At least that's how I've seen it operate in almost every instance I've ever worked with it.

Of course, the counter to that is that we're not doing scrum right. The question in my mind then is if I haven't seen a single team do Scrum correctly there's something wrong that makes the methodology so difficult it can't be applied ...

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#32

Post by beoberha »

dgdosen wrote: post #23
beoberha wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that, that’s what I do with my team, but I’ve never heard that referred to as “doing Kanban”. Maybe I’m just being pedantic, but writing an article to say “you don’t need Scrum, just pull tasks off the board” completely misses the point of why teams use Scrum.

They're also visualized (on a kanban board) - are you doing that? Make work visible.

For us, visibility isn’t an issue. I would say estimations are by far the biggest struggle we have in “doing Kanban”. Luckily, they’re not super important for us and I usually bubble up a very rough estimate in monthly reports to management, but in an org where they matter more, I can absolutely see why Scrum gets adopted the way it does.

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#35

Post by [deleted] »

DanHulton wrote: post #3

Every team I've worked on that has switched from Kanban to Scrum has slowed down and never regained the previous velocity. Further, many of the promised benefits of Scrum (things like better insight and predictability about delivery rates) never materialized. Every team that I've worked on that has switched from Scrum to Kanban saw an immediate improvement in speed that never disappeared. Once, just once, I was lucky…

[deleted]

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#36

Post by [deleted] »

beoberha wrote: post #20
dgdosen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're prioritized tasks. They're pulled through. Simplicity is the structure.

I get that, that’s what I do with my team, but I’ve never heard that referred to as “doing Kanban”. Maybe I’m just being pedantic, but writing an article to say “you don’t need Scrum, just pull tasks off the board” completely misses the point of why teams use Scrum.

[deleted]

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#37

Post by whitemary »

DanHulton wrote: post #3

Every team I've worked on that has switched from Kanban to Scrum has slowed down and never regained the previous velocity. Further, many of the promised benefits of Scrum (things like better insight and predictability about delivery rates) never materialized. Every team that I've worked on that has switched from Scrum to Kanban saw an immediate improvement in speed that never disappeared. Once, just once, I was lucky…

> Every team I've worked on that has switched from Kanban to Scrum has slowed down and never regained the previous velocity.

As an engineer on a team using scrum, this is my favorite part.

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#38

Post by nittanymount »

leetharris wrote: post #11
nittanymount wrote: post #7

- PM/PO loves scrum, that gives them an illusion of controlling the dev speed/progress... - the estimate is a joke... - the standup is useful to know who is pretending work. but no need a daily standup for sure. and a non-technical PM with scrum makes things worse.

Sounds like you have a very poorly run and dysfunctional team. When applied correctly, good project management ends up better for everyone.

haha, we started by following the scrum rules, some folks didn't think it is the way to go, sadly not everyone spoke out, because PM/PO thought it is useful from their perspective...

fortunately, over time, no sub team continued the way, it has mutated back to the kanban style more or less...

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#39

Post by beoberha »

baby wrote: post #21
TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also don't fully understand what "doing Kanban" means - like you, I see Kanban as a type of board rather than a method of going through said board (maybe because of a lack of understanding of process & an over-indulgence in Trello's marketing). That being said, I would say that having a Kanban board without any sprint structure (or any attached micromeetings) would skyrocket my productivity. The two-week sprint thi…

Kanban is about organizing the work to be done and periodically revisiting the board to understand the work done and what’s next (which involves reprioritizing, pivoting, etc.) Some people might debate on how active a kanban board should be.

This goes back to my original post. Is this “doing Kanban” or is this just another process using a Kanban board?
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