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Monoliths are not dinosaurs

allthingsdistributed.com

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Re: Monoliths are not dinosaurs

#31

Post by emodendroket »

asdfman123 wrote: post #13
bovermyer wrote: post #11

You know, I'm pretty sure you could build a PHP monolith in 2023 without a framework and it would do what it needed to do.

Bad coding is infinitely worse than a “bad” language. I don’t know how many of you are musicians, but many people are surprised to find that the tone quality of a guitar has way more to do with the person playing it than the way it was built.

Bad languages, more than anything else, frustrate your expectations and encourage developers to do things that are difficult to maintain. Sure, a great basketball player can dribble with gloves on his hands, but he’s making the task harder on himself, and anyone who’s less than great is less likely to be able to hold on to the ball at all in that case.

Re: Monoliths are not dinosaurs

#32

Post by keyle »

rr808 wrote: post #5

Can't we all just go back? Seriously every system I've worked on in the last 10 years seems worse in every metric than what I worked on 2000-2010.

There is no going back. The industry has seen a 5X raise in money and people.

It's only natural that a job that used to take 2 now takes 10 people because of those facts.

And I agree. We've traded safety and a few other things that could have been ironed out in exchange of massive gridlocks, headaches and colossal facepalms. Performance is only on par if you consider the hardware improvements, it's crazy.

Re: Monoliths are not dinosaurs

#33

Post by pbreit »

rr808 wrote: post #5

Can't we all just go back? Seriously every system I've worked on in the last 10 years seems worse in every metric than what I worked on 2000-2010.

Agree. Very few systems benefit from the increased complexity and decreased productivity.

DHH has a couple of posts on the topic recently: https://world.hey.com/dhh/how-to-recover-from-microservices-...

Re: Monoliths are not dinosaurs

#35

Post by intelVISA »

pbreit wrote: post #33
rr808 wrote: post #5

Can't we all just go back? Seriously every system I've worked on in the last 10 years seems worse in every metric than what I worked on 2000-2010.

Agree. Very few systems benefit from the increased complexity and decreased productivity. DHH has a couple of posts on the topic recently: https://world.hey.com/dhh/how-to-recover-from-microservices-...

Rare case of DHH being cogent, I wonder if this was a result of him rediscovering Traefik and Docker Swarm?

Re: Monoliths are not dinosaurs

#36

Post by wmf »

intelVISA wrote: post #35
pbreit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Very few systems benefit from the increased complexity and decreased productivity. DHH has a couple of posts on the topic recently: https://world.hey.com/dhh/how-to-recover-from-microservices-...

Rare case of DHH being cogent, I wonder if this was a result of him rediscovering Traefik and Docker Swarm?

He's always been pushing monoliths.

Re: Monoliths are not dinosaurs

#37

Post by paulddraper »

Software would be 50% better if every developer understood Tesler's Law:

"Complexity can neither be created nor destroyed, only moved somewhere else."

The drive to simplify is virtuous, but often people are blind to the complexity that it adds.

Okay, so your microservices are each very simple, but that made the interactions and resource provisioning very complex. What was the net gain?

The correct solution depends on the circumstances. There are excellent uses of microservices. There are excellent uses of monoliths. There are excellent uses of monorepos. There are excellent uses of ... (wait never mind monorepos are just better).

Understand what is ESSENTIAL complexity and what is INCIDENTAL complexity. Simplify your system to remove as much incidental complexity as possible, until you are left with the essential and be satisfied with that.

Re: Monoliths are not dinosaurs

#38

Post by intelVISA »

wmf wrote: post #36
intelVISA wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rare case of DHH being cogent, I wonder if this was a result of him rediscovering Traefik and Docker Swarm?

He's always been pushing monoliths.

Then I ask forgiveness for ever doubting him. Can he help us turn back from this Cloud Hellscape?

Re: Monoliths are not dinosaurs

#40

Post by mycall »

pbreit wrote: post #34
bovermyer wrote: post #11

You know, I'm pretty sure you could build a PHP monolith in 2023 without a framework and it would do what it needed to do.

Now that PHP has lost its massive deployment advantage, step up to Rails or Python.

I hear about Python all the time. Rarely hear about Rails now. I think the world picked one over the other.
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