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Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

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Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#31

Post by eqvinox »

OscarCunningham wrote: post #30
eqvinox wrote: post #28

(from that project's README:) > AI art is democratizing art and letting hundred of millions of people express themselves through art. Making art much more prevalent and unique My contemporary art major friend blows a vein every time they read something like this. It's clear what it tries to say, but that's not art . It's fancy pictures. Which isn't to say it's somehow wrong, or doesn't allow people to express themsel…

By analogy, would the art of a photograph consist only of the location and orientation of the camera at the time it was taken?

In a way, yes. But both for a photograph as well as AI-generated art, you'd want (or even need) to show you can in fact execute it. That's where the actual result comes together. (There's also slightly distinct terms to throw around here, art, artwork, creative spark, …)

The problem with most "AI art" is that it has absolutely no visible creative spark. It's entirely possible to create art with AI, just — millions of random images or text aren't it.

(btw: I'm trying to explain the understanding of "art" as it is [fuzzily] agreed upon by people active in the field. I may be getting things wrong, or explaining them badly. Of note, however, is that this isn't "just my personal opinion", I'm trying to convey an existing consensus of that field.)

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#32

Post by eqvinox »

vivegi wrote: post #27

I wonder what happens when sites start using techniques like Zip/Compression bombs to defend against impolite mass downloaders. Particularly, in this case of downloading images without honoring robots.txt, a PNG/JPEG/ZIP bomb [1] might be a countermeasure in this arms race. [1]: https://www.bamsoftware.com/hacks/deflate.html

PNG bombs are easy (since it's zlib/deflate), but I'm not aware of JPEG bombs (NB: not JPEG XL) — do you know any?

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#33

Post by Am4TIfIsER0ppos »

eqvinox wrote: post #28

(from that project's README:) > AI art is democratizing art and letting hundred of millions of people express themselves through art. Making art much more prevalent and unique My contemporary art major friend blows a vein every time they read something like this. It's clear what it tries to say, but that's not art . It's fancy pictures. Which isn't to say it's somehow wrong, or doesn't allow people to express themsel…

> you have to perform a creative action yourself

The artist's unmade bed says hello!

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#34

Post by Spivak »

I'm not really sure what the hope here is for the people in the thread. Okay so the author makes it opt-in by default. The first user downloads the tool, tries to run it, goes "oh, well that's useless" forks the repo deletes the header check and runs it. Now to block them you have to employ "big league" blocking techniques instead of setting a header.

Having it be opt-out actually makes it so server operators have the ability to turn it off because a few people doing it will go unnoticed.

It's like how Microsoft killed DNT by making it the default. Sites can be like "sure, we can support DNT for the users that are really privacy conscious" but once it's every user the rubber meets the road of ad revenue.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#35

Post by vivegi »

eqvinox wrote: post #32
vivegi wrote: post #27

I wonder what happens when sites start using techniques like Zip/Compression bombs to defend against impolite mass downloaders. Particularly, in this case of downloading images without honoring robots.txt, a PNG/JPEG/ZIP bomb [1] might be a countermeasure in this arms race. [1]: https://www.bamsoftware.com/hacks/deflate.html

PNG bombs are easy (since it's zlib/deflate), but I'm not aware of JPEG bombs (NB: not JPEG XL) — do you know any?

Should have read JPEG XL.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#37

Post by salawat »

Riverheart wrote: post #24
heyoni wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this? I keep seeing it.

What is what? If you mean distinguishing between AI and humans, it’s exactly what it sounds like. Fair use is a legal construct not a universal truth and subject to change like anything else. Just like how the US Founders writing the 2nd amendment with muskets in mind didn’t foresee full auto assault rifles in the hands of citizens. In hindsight, overly permissive law, all things not equal, hello gun control.

Automatic weapons were in fact in the public consciousness at the time of the founding, and the Gatling Gun existed and was used in the Civil War with no restrictions on who may own one.

I dare say, this thought that people so well read they could architect a country were not aware of the State of the Art in weaponry is rather naive.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#38

Post by adultSwim »

version_five wrote: post #9
gus_massa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the "solution" is that sites detect abuse and ban the ip for 24 hours. When enough users of this tool get banned, they will fill the github issues tracker with complain and the maintainers will have to learn how to write a polite spider. We have the inverse problem in the university. We are all (many thousands) behind a proxy, so some popular sites detect the avalanche of request and add a captcha or other an…

The tool has instructions for how to opt out. They could also ban the user agent. This is just someone venting about something that's currently popular.

The tool came up with it's own solution to an already solved problem. It should respect robots.txt

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#39

Post by Riverheart »

salawat wrote: post #37
Riverheart wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is what? If you mean distinguishing between AI and humans, it’s exactly what it sounds like. Fair use is a legal construct not a universal truth and subject to change like anything else. Just like how the US Founders writing the 2nd amendment with muskets in mind didn’t foresee full auto assault rifles in the hands of citizens. In hindsight, overly permissive law, all things not equal, hello gun control.

Automatic weapons were in fact in the public consciousness at the time of the founding, and the Gatling Gun existed and was used in the Civil War with no restrictions on who may own one. I dare say, this thought that people so well read they could architect a country were not aware of the State of the Art in weaponry is rather naive.

If it is naive to disbelieve the founders foresaw a future in which automatic weapons and bullets would be so lightweight, cheap and accessible to civilians that anyone could buy them and go on a rampage by themselves that the State could not suppress without dozens of police and SWAT teams then I am naive.

Gatling Guns came well after the Founding, were large, heavy, hand cranked, cost between $1000 to $1500 to purchase and required a four man crew to operate. I don’t feel they can be compared to modern weapons.

The Founders were intelligent and capable men but they were not infallible. They knew that too, that’s why Amendments exist.

Re: Please make this tool “opt-in” by default

#40

Post by curiousbean »

vivegi wrote: post #27

I wonder what happens when sites start using techniques like Zip/Compression bombs to defend against impolite mass downloaders. Particularly, in this case of downloading images without honoring robots.txt, a PNG/JPEG/ZIP bomb [1] might be a countermeasure in this arms race. [1]: https://www.bamsoftware.com/hacks/deflate.html

I appreciate the idea, but it's also a border line crime if you end up bringing down the requester (not that I would shed any tears).
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