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Everything Is a Practice

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Re: Everything Is a Practice

#31

Post by lacy_tinpot »

prottog wrote: post #27
bogrollben wrote: post #17

I'm at the point where I feel fed up with too much talk about self-improvement. It's ok to not be productive and just enjoy things. Enjoy relationships, the sunshine, even video games or something that is literally a waste of time. Maybe I got burned out by goal-setting and productivity talk. It also might be some remnants of some mild depression I had lately. I guess I just don't like feeling pressured to constantly…

> if you're not improving, you're less of a human being I mean, it's true. The version of you that was a couch potato for four hours on a Saturday is less good than the version that went for a run, lifted weights, home-brewed beer, met someone for coffee, or whatever self-improvement you might have done. (I don't agree that enjoying relationships is contrary to self-improvement.) Of course, opportunity cost is a thin…

Productivity making you better or worse makes a needless moral judgement. What's better is that being productive allows you to accomplish the things you want.

Then the real question becomes about your goals, rather than some vague ideas of "work". I think it's better to really consider what you want and don't want, and genuinely accept them. The productivity scale is not some inherent moral metric. This shrouds the intent of productivity, which is to accomplish goals.

So you're not worse if you're not being productive, but you are worse if you aren't accomplish whatever goals you have for yourself. Not because it's some moral failure but simply accomplishing goals feels good and not accomplishing them feels bad. Further the goals themselves aren't universal. They're merely reflections of your innate desires, which you have to accept. If you feel like you weren't "productive", it's probably closer to say that you feel bad for not achieving what you set out to do.

The simple problem here I think is goal setting. Not solely productivity itself.

Re: Everything Is a Practice

#32

Post by prottog »

bheadmaster wrote: post #30
prottog wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you're not improving, you're less of a human being I mean, it's true. The version of you that was a couch potato for four hours on a Saturday is less good than the version that went for a run, lifted weights, home-brewed beer, met someone for coffee, or whatever self-improvement you might have done. (I don't agree that enjoying relationships is contrary to self-improvement.) Of course, opportunity cost is a thin…

There is no objective "good", only "good for whom". Even widely accepted qualities like money, character, physical health - they are good to the person that has them, but only if they themselves desire such things. If a person desires peace and quiet and a vacation, then getting up at 6am to go to gym and spending time grinding leetcode is not good for them, it's a burden.

> There is no objective "good", only "good for whom".

I think this is at the crux of your and the other commenters' points. There can be no final agreement on this topic between those who think that there is an objective "good" and those who don't.

Re: Everything Is a Practice

#33

Post by sureglymop »

Starwatcher2001 wrote: post #10
dswalter wrote: post #3

Something about not being young anymore is that I am much more comfortable leveraging small changes consistently over time. When I was 16, the idea of doing a little bit of practicing vocal exercises each day in order to improve over time would have seemed an insurmountable challenge. I needed things to improve over the course of days or hours. (In this, I was terribly short-sighted). But now that I'm considerably ol…

I'm doing something similar. I've decided at 62 to learn to play the keyboard and be able to read music. It's late in the day but I'm slowly getting there 30 minutes a day.

That's awesome!!

Re: Everything Is a Practice

#34

Post by llamataboot »

bogrollben wrote: post #17

I'm at the point where I feel fed up with too much talk about self-improvement. It's ok to not be productive and just enjoy things. Enjoy relationships, the sunshine, even video games or something that is literally a waste of time. Maybe I got burned out by goal-setting and productivity talk. It also might be some remnants of some mild depression I had lately. I guess I just don't like feeling pressured to constantly…

You can also practice being content and happy not improving, I think that's still a "practice" in the sense of this essay

Re: Everything Is a Practice

#35

Post by ozim »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #28
prottog wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you're not improving, you're less of a human being I mean, it's true. The version of you that was a couch potato for four hours on a Saturday is less good than the version that went for a run, lifted weights, home-brewed beer, met someone for coffee, or whatever self-improvement you might have done. (I don't agree that enjoying relationships is contrary to self-improvement.) Of course, opportunity cost is a thin…

> The version of you that was a couch potato for four hours on a Saturday is less good than the version that went for a run, lifted weights, home-brewed beer, met someone for coffee, or whatever self-improvement you might have done. How so? I see many people assert this, but I've yet to see someone be able to articulate why (that isn't trivially refutable). Are we measuring by happiness? Contentment? External validat…

I think only proper metric is "future quality of life". Sitting on couch watching TV - you are sure it is not going to contribute to your well being in 10-20-40 years. To be able to do some pushups while you are 70y.o. - you have to do hundreds of pushups while you were 20y.o.

I don't know anyone who wants to have a heart attack or spend his last 5-10 years of life in a hospital bed. So I am not writing about quality of life like getting a Porsche, because grabbing coffee with a friend or home brewing won't land you that. Having a habit of doing something, walking somewhere gets you going and if someone hits 70y.o. and they are couch potato, they will be in for a world of pain. Where if they would grab a coffee with their friends from time to time do some hobby they will have some lasting relations and stuff to do.

Well I suppose it is not trivially refutable - but happy to see what would be the refutation.

Re: Everything Is a Practice

#36

Post by ilc »

prottog wrote: post #27
bogrollben wrote: post #17

I'm at the point where I feel fed up with too much talk about self-improvement. It's ok to not be productive and just enjoy things. Enjoy relationships, the sunshine, even video games or something that is literally a waste of time. Maybe I got burned out by goal-setting and productivity talk. It also might be some remnants of some mild depression I had lately. I guess I just don't like feeling pressured to constantly…

> if you're not improving, you're less of a human being I mean, it's true. The version of you that was a couch potato for four hours on a Saturday is less good than the version that went for a run, lifted weights, home-brewed beer, met someone for coffee, or whatever self-improvement you might have done. (I don't agree that enjoying relationships is contrary to self-improvement.) Of course, opportunity cost is a thin…

Not true at all.

You forget the importance of rest itself in self improvement.

Understanding how to improve, is a lifelong journey. Understanding how much to work, how much to rest, how much to sharpen the sword, how much you can mix those things... and how all this interplays with your personal factors is essential to get the most from yourself.

Sometimes... Watching TV and not seeing your friends, or whatever is the RIGHT thing to do. And we should have 0 shame about it when it is. I'll admit video games are my vice over TV in general. But there's times when I've gone too hard... and even gaming may be too taxing for what I can take.

Re: Everything Is a Practice

#37

Post by prottog »

ilc wrote: post #36
prottog wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you're not improving, you're less of a human being I mean, it's true. The version of you that was a couch potato for four hours on a Saturday is less good than the version that went for a run, lifted weights, home-brewed beer, met someone for coffee, or whatever self-improvement you might have done. (I don't agree that enjoying relationships is contrary to self-improvement.) Of course, opportunity cost is a thin…

Not true at all. You forget the importance of rest itself in self improvement. Understanding how to improve, is a lifelong journey. Understanding how much to work, how much to rest, how much to sharpen the sword, how much you can mix those things... and how all this interplays with your personal factors is essential to get the most from yourself. Sometimes... Watching TV and not seeing your friends, or whatever is th…

Like I said, opportunity cost is a thing, and we'll never know what the "best" choice was at any given time. The best choice may be getting rest or watching TV or whatever.

And, like I also said, it's important to not attach emotions to your judgment of whether your choice was the right one or not; you can reflect upon your choice to play a video game over doing some other "productive" thing without feeling shame about it. In fact, it's important to remain dispassionate in this process.

Re: Everything Is a Practice

#38

Post by yamtaddle »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #28
prottog wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you're not improving, you're less of a human being I mean, it's true. The version of you that was a couch potato for four hours on a Saturday is less good than the version that went for a run, lifted weights, home-brewed beer, met someone for coffee, or whatever self-improvement you might have done. (I don't agree that enjoying relationships is contrary to self-improvement.) Of course, opportunity cost is a thin…

> The version of you that was a couch potato for four hours on a Saturday is less good than the version that went for a run, lifted weights, home-brewed beer, met someone for coffee, or whatever self-improvement you might have done. How so? I see many people assert this, but I've yet to see someone be able to articulate why (that isn't trivially refutable). Are we measuring by happiness? Contentment? External validat…

> How so? I see many people assert this, but I've yet to see someone be able to articulate why (that isn't trivially refutable).

> Are we measuring by happiness? Contentment? External validation? Popularity? Legacy? Fitness? Total number of experiences? Something else? And, for any chosen metric, why is that metric important?

I think this is mostly a distraction.

I don't think most folks find it that hard to separate the best 1/3 of things they might reasonably do to fill a free hour, from the worst 1/3, for example, or to name on a Thursday things they probably ought to do more of in the next couple days, because they've not done much of it this week, and it's good to do. Absence of iron-clad proof of what "good" is doesn't seem to impede them a bit.

Re: Everything Is a Practice

#39

Post by paulpauper »

'Practice' seems like yet another overused buzzword. Same for the expression 'doing the work'. I am not sure who popularized it...maybe Seth Godin or Ryan Holiday. I think too many people waste too much time with practice when what they need is to learn better execution and cut losses sooner. Sometimes practice is not good enough. Doing more is not better. Persistence does not always pay off.

Re: Everything Is a Practice

#40

Post by gausswho »

lacy_tinpot wrote: post #31
prottog wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you're not improving, you're less of a human being I mean, it's true. The version of you that was a couch potato for four hours on a Saturday is less good than the version that went for a run, lifted weights, home-brewed beer, met someone for coffee, or whatever self-improvement you might have done. (I don't agree that enjoying relationships is contrary to self-improvement.) Of course, opportunity cost is a thin…

Productivity making you better or worse makes a needless moral judgement. What's better is that being productive allows you to accomplish the things you want. Then the real question becomes about your goals, rather than some vague ideas of "work". I think it's better to really consider what you want and don't want, and genuinely accept them. The productivity scale is not some inherent moral metric. This shrouds the i…

I think you have distilled this to an accurate origin. Those who are driven to improve wish to live an intentful life pursuing their explicit goals.

I would however challenge the corollary that that is an objectively more enjoyable life. I find many unhappy friends an colleagues grinding on a path of thejr choosing, to a pace of their own arbitrary selection.

In my experience, I am most happy when I am goal-less, but engaged. Open to happy accidents. Agile to respond to new inspirations. Free of burdens imposed either by others or myself. I pair this with a drive to bring my pursuits to a nice milestone if possible, ideally public like publishing a video. But I allow myself to move on if something doesn't bring joy anymore.

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