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Alibaba breaks itself up in six

economist.com

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Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#31

Post by voisin »

SilverBirch wrote: post #19
duxup wrote: post #6

It’s always hard for me to understand the why when it comes to China’s government. “Investors cheer the move as signalling the end of China’s tech crackdown” If this is government action then why would this be the “end” of government involvement?

I'm not an expert on this, but from what I gather this all leads back to a power struggle between Jack Ma and Xi Jinping. Ma was ready to go public with AliPay and in the build up to it made a speech that criticised the government regulation as being out of date. This was viewed as a challenge to the governments power. Over the next few months the government moved to tighten regulations on companies like AliPay and d…

> So people are hoping that now the worst of it is done

What is the basis of this hope?

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#32

Post by AlecSchueler »

jeron wrote: post #10
duxup wrote: post #6

It’s always hard for me to understand the why when it comes to China’s government. “Investors cheer the move as signalling the end of China’s tech crackdown” If this is government action then why would this be the “end” of government involvement?

I think they mean the end of China’s crackdown wrt alibaba

Just checking my understanding:

They prefer individual businesses not to get to big, monopolistic or dominant across multiple sectors, as this would give the business undue influence over politics? And of course they're operating on the idea that the political sphere governs the market and not that the biggest businesses should be the most powerful lobbiests.

So this is an end to it because it effectively neuters the one super company by making it into several more easily regulated companies?

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#33

Post by xwdv »

I always appreciate the CCP’s twisted sense of symbolism. They chose 6 pieces to symbolize Jack Ma having his arms, legs and head cut off, and this is what remains. Chilling.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#34

Post by a-user-you-like »

maxwell wrote: post #7

Great move. This will increase local competition and wages, diversify ideas and design, and make shareholders more money than as a single entity. As with Standard Oil and AT&T. The U.S. should continue investigating splitting up Alphabet, Apple, Meta, and Microsoft.

The traditional definition of a monopoly is the government issuing a grant for a business to operate exclusively. These ought not to be allowed.

If there is no subsidy or special grant, it’s not a monopoly.

Often these days there are subsidies or unfair grants given in some way, and the solution is to eliminate the subsidy or grant.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#36

Post by nindalf »

quonn wrote: post #27
bioemerl wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple into hardware and software. Microsoft into OS and other software and cloud. Amazon into cloud and web store(s). Google into ads and web software that serves ads.

It doesn't make sense to split Apple into hardware and software since the integration and simplicity that comes from it is the very thing that makes Apple unique.

You asked for ideas. You never specified that they should be workable or logical.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#37

Post by TobTobXX »

SilverBirch wrote: post #19
duxup wrote: post #6

It’s always hard for me to understand the why when it comes to China’s government. “Investors cheer the move as signalling the end of China’s tech crackdown” If this is government action then why would this be the “end” of government involvement?

I'm not an expert on this, but from what I gather this all leads back to a power struggle between Jack Ma and Xi Jinping. Ma was ready to go public with AliPay and in the build up to it made a speech that criticised the government regulation as being out of date. This was viewed as a challenge to the governments power. Over the next few months the government moved to tighten regulations on companies like AliPay and d…

Completely OT:

> Over the next few months the government [...] disappeared Jack Ma.

Huh, I've never seen "disappear" being used as a transitive verb. I kinda like it and I think I'll put it in my language toolbox.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#38

Post by pfisherman »

poszlem wrote: post #23
endisneigh wrote: post #8

It's interesting to contrast China's approach of not allowing business to operate within the plane of power in which the government does, vs. the United States, which has companies whose power is certainly on the level of many state governments.

I came across a comment that resonated with me and seems relevant in this context, so I saved it. It says: "The arc of communism is long and it leans towards oppressing the fuck out of people. It’s a tendency of all governmental systems. Communism rests most of its power in the hands of government without a moneyed elite to oppose them, so it tends to move to authoritarianism faster and with less resistance."

Please excuse my naïveté here, but communism is an economic system and not a form of government, no?

My understanding is that economics and governance are largely - though not completely - orthogonal.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#39

Post by lanternfish »

voisin wrote: post #31
SilverBirch wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an expert on this, but from what I gather this all leads back to a power struggle between Jack Ma and Xi Jinping. Ma was ready to go public with AliPay and in the build up to it made a speech that criticised the government regulation as being out of date. This was viewed as a challenge to the governments power. Over the next few months the government moved to tighten regulations on companies like AliPay and d…

> So people are hoping that now the worst of it is done What is the basis of this hope?

Presumably because Alibaba - the challenger that started this crackdown - is now slain.

On a political level, there are only so many Chinese companies with enough power to actually threaten the CCP, and Alibaba is probably enough of an example to keep them in line - further crackdowns are probably unnecessary.

Re: Alibaba breaks itself up in six

#40

Post by bioemerl »

quonn wrote: post #27
bioemerl wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple into hardware and software. Microsoft into OS and other software and cloud. Amazon into cloud and web store(s). Google into ads and web software that serves ads.

It doesn't make sense to split Apple into hardware and software since the integration and simplicity that comes from it is the very thing that makes Apple unique.

Unfortunately this is also the source of all their monopolistic behavior.

Apple hardware should be incentivized to make great hardware for any operating system.

Apple software should be incentivized to sell to many manufacturers and also to not obey apple hardware's demands for locks to prevent things like the replacement of batteries.

Their union could be a great thing, but apple decided to use it to be a bunch of monopolists, so your break them up like all the others.

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