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AI Labs Urged to Pump the Brakes in Open Letter

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Re: AI Labs Urged to Pump the Brakes in Open Letter

#31
Ultimately its a millennia old fight between manipulators and rationalism.

The bead maze toy versus the abbacus.

Twisted contorted reasoning versus formal verification.

Choose your abbacus.

The black box nature of machine learning models is not the issue. Instead of training to imitate vacuous conjectures and claims as humans on average typically do, they could be trained to do automated theorem proving, AlphaZero style.

A minimalistic verifier like metamath is available free for download, including set.mm and a freely available book. It would be hard to purge from civilization.

Currently its math database is collaboratively worked on at github.

In theory a blockchain could host it.

Fermat style challenging could be used to objectively assess the value of theorems: the longer it matures unproven as a challenge on the chain, the higher the reward if someone finally proves it.

This inevitably creates an incentive to enter and digitize known mathematics into machine readable form, which will be easy for machine learning to accomplish.

Machine learning empowered automated theorem proving will become a profitable business, with the fruits available for all to benefit from.

Well, cryptography and protocols will also appear.

So during training the machine learning models will get endless bedtime stories about Alice, Bob and Eve.

Using conventional forward or backward chaining combined with adversarial models, one can construct arbitrary provable theorems, and negate it, then hide or propagate the negation so its not simply the first symbol in the theorem.

So we can train models to challenge each other Fermat style, about the truth or falsehood of a statement, and demand proof.

We can thus construct artificial mathematical systems with known inconsistencies and train models to seek a proof that the system contains an inconsistency. Such a proof will depend on the conflicting axioms.

Hence the models will be our best tool to detect and resolve hypocrisy.

The literal meaning of "apocalypse" is "revelation" or "uncovering", not "big tragedy"...

The verification algorithm, for example the ~300 LoC python implementation by Raph Levien, owes most of its length to parsing the metamath file format.

The actual Kolmogorov complexity of the verification algorithm itself is much smaller. There won't be any bits to "align".

All these hopeless attempts at trying to align the intuition component of the machine learning model, instead of training it to gain intuition in producing logical derivations.

The real horror of the control freaks is not that their alignment mechanisms might fail, but that its impossible to bias the verification algorithm itself, that its impossible to perpetuate the conflicts of interest, that any additional code in the verifier is immediately suspect, especially if it obviously skips all checks and dogmatically accepts a statement if its signed by a hardcoded "right" key.

The objective judge will be mechanized.

"abaccus akbar!"

Re: AI Labs Urged to Pump the Brakes in Open Letter

#33

People are really freaking out about AI aren’t they? Why bother? It’s moving super fast, just wait and see what happens. And even if you could control or regulate it, exactly how would you do that? What would you be regulating/controlling? How would you define it? And why would you want to anyway? The party has just started, if you think the revolution has arrived, your completely wrong - this is just the beginning -…

[dead]

Re: AI Labs Urged to Pump the Brakes in Open Letter

#34
See also:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35356980

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35356750

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35356771

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35356499

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35356490

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35356390

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35355803

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35354565

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35353458

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35353484

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35353394

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35354704

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35355541

(not about "the letter" but in the same spirit)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35356691

Re: AI Labs Urged to Pump the Brakes in Open Letter

#36
post #4

> As of Tuesday, no O̶p̶e̶n̶AI.com employees had signed the letter, although CEO Sam Altman’s name briefly appeared then disappeared from the list of signatories. You already know the intention(s) of Sam Altman and O̶p̶e̶n̶AI.com. It was only to run with VC money and close up all their research up. They are no better than DeepMind.

>You already know the intention(s) of Sam Altman and O̶p̶e̶n̶AI.com. It was only to run with VC money and close up all their research up. Citation needed.

So O̶p̶e̶n̶AI.com did not take VC money then and close up the technical and architectural details of GPT-4 then?

They might as well rename themselves to AI.com since they are not 'Open'.

Re: AI Labs Urged to Pump the Brakes in Open Letter

#37
post #29
post #13

My bets are that they want to catch up.

Exactly. And while I don't love OpenAI becoming increasingly closed, they really have done an excellent job with alignment that I very much doubt some of the signers of the letter would have. So I'd much rather have the progress in AI continue to be led by a company pursuing caution than by another company that used those 6 months to catch up and take the lead with even less caution. This is very much "out of the fry…

And bottle everything up in a company that will then want to charge massive rents for it. This is a transformative tool in a lot of industries. Given half a chance, Musk and his types would have patented fire.

Re: AI Labs Urged to Pump the Brakes in Open Letter

#38
post #22

People are really freaking out about AI aren’t they? Why bother? It’s moving super fast, just wait and see what happens. And even if you could control or regulate it, exactly how would you do that? What would you be regulating/controlling? How would you define it? And why would you want to anyway? The party has just started, if you think the revolution has arrived, your completely wrong - this is just the beginning -…

> People are really freaking out about AI aren’t they? AI touches the domain of software development the most (since we have put a lot of data about it on the Internet). It touches other things too like writing, and design. It doesn't touch things like food delivery, construction, or a farmer. Currently, they happen to be at the lower tier of society. For some reason. Despite the fact that you can't go two days at a…

> Tl;dr: The people who are freaked out about AI are the people who are bound to lose the most by it.

And some probably used ML assistance to contribute to the draft:

> "At some point, it may be important to get independent review before starting to train future systems, and for the most advanced efforts to agree to limit the rate of growth of compute used for creating new models." We agree. That point is now.

This would lead to emphasis on algorithmic compute efficiency, quickly decreasing reliance on mega-actor cooperation! Hah!

Re: AI Labs Urged to Pump the Brakes in Open Letter

#39
The posters here seem to be highly skeptical of the need to regulate emerging AI.

I find that pretty disappointing and surprising.

Recently, they gave gpt-4 access to a terminal, the internet, and money. And gpt-4 itself is a software (and software in general has bugs, vulnerabilities, etc) black box that is incredibly, unprecedentedly powerful and not fully understood. Part of its training data is almost every known security vulnerability.

You guys really don’t see any potential problems with this? I mean really? Get a little creative here.

Re: AI Labs Urged to Pump the Brakes in Open Letter

#40

I felt the same way when I really wanted a super soaker 2000 and then the neighbor kid got one before me. "MOOOOM!!!"

This is exactly my feeling from the whole letter. I don't understand why are people scared of ChatGPT and similar, when it is just better IntelliSense
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