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CERN researchers have observed and generated high-energy neutrino radiation

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Re: CERN researchers have observed and generated high-energy neutrino radiation

#31

Post by dragonwriter »

jl6 wrote: post #14

If we can both generate and detect neutrinos, we have the basis for a communication device that can operate on a point-to-point basis between any two locations. If Europe wants to send a secret message to Australia, it can point its transmitter towards the ground, and fire the beam through the interior of the Earth. It is very unlikely that there will be anybody in between to intercept the signal. There may be more p…

> If we can both generate and detect neutrinos, we have the basis for a communication device that can operate on a point-to-point basis between any two locations.

AIUI, you’ll need a much bigger detector farther from the beam location, and the bandwidth is going to suck at any range, but, sure, the odds that someone sticks a neutrino detector in the path is pretty low.

Re: CERN researchers have observed and generated high-energy neutrino radiation

#32

Post by oblak »

Gooblebrai wrote: post #13
rsynnott wrote: post #12

> they have observed and generated in the laboratory [Insert mandatory Three Body Problem reference here]

To be honest, I've read the first and second books and not entirely sure what you mean.

I am finishing up the third one and also have no idea.

Many people have thought about neutrino comms

Re: CERN researchers have observed and generated high-energy neutrino radiation

#33

Post by dragonwriter »

teawrecks wrote: post #23
copymoro wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the shadows are so dark (or the secrecy so official?)....that for all we are able to know, they already done it.

We would see decisions being made that aren't physically possible with current technology. Also the number of people who would need to keep something like this a secret would be on par with that of a fake moon landing. If their application of the technology were so secret that we couldn't tell it existed, then it wasn't worth whatever they paid.

> We would see decisions being made that aren’t physically possible with current technology.

Or we wouldn’t, because it would only be used where an alternative information cover story could be concocted or where the decision and action itself could be kept secret, to avoid exposing the capability.

Re: CERN researchers have observed and generated high-energy neutrino radiation

#34

Post by crubier »

daveguy wrote: post #18
SaberTail wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone does it, it will be financial firms putting them under stock exchanges to get milliseconds of advantage over anyone following the curvature of the earth.

This implies financial feasibility. It still takes a super collider on one end and a detection tank on the other. But one day it might be feasible. I would think a military warning system would be implemented before a financial aid.

What value would the military get from knowing a piece of information a few milliseconds faster?

Re: CERN researchers have observed and generated high-energy neutrino radiation

#35

Post by foota »

uf00lme wrote: post #28
SaberTail wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone does it, it will be financial firms putting them under stock exchanges to get milliseconds of advantage over anyone following the curvature of the earth.

From my understanding most exchanges put in artificial limits now to ensure anyone with mega bucks for infrastructure are equal

I think this is on the last mile, but doesn't apply outside of that. E.g., the length of cord in the exchange is the same, but outside of that it's your infrastructure.

Re: CERN researchers have observed and generated high-energy neutrino radiation

#36

Post by kadoban »

temp0826 wrote: post #15
hammock wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct dosage isn’t the only possibility though. Could be used to start a nuclear chain reaction, for example. We could also find a novel way to unlock the amount of energy required for direct lethal dosage, analogous to how we figured out how to split atoms

Start a power plant meltdown or detonate an enemy's weapon stockpiles...from anywhere?

Is there even a theoretical way that this could happen? Seems essentially impossible. The whole thing with neutrinos is they just _don't_ interact with anything except _extremely_ rarely.

Re: CERN researchers have observed and generated high-energy neutrino radiation

#37

Post by daveguy »

crubier wrote: post #34
daveguy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This implies financial feasibility. It still takes a super collider on one end and a detection tank on the other. But one day it might be feasible. I would think a military warning system would be implemented before a financial aid.

What value would the military get from knowing a piece of information a few milliseconds faster?

Direct transmission through the earth could be as much as a quarter second faster than around the circumference. A hypersonic missile can travel about a half of a kilometer in a quarter second. So, any application where a half kilometer or quarter second head start might make a difference. The only thing I can think of where the stakes are high enough and timing critical enough is nuclear deterrence. But as hypersonic missiles and planes get faster, there could be other advantages.

Re: CERN researchers have observed and generated high-energy neutrino radiation

#38

Post by russdill »

capableweb wrote: post #26
jeffwass wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was studied decades ago. IIRC the effective bit rate, at least with the detector tech at that time, was insanely slow, like a few bytes per hour (or maybe even per day).

As long as the latency isn't also hours/a day, it could still be useful, even if just one byte, as you could communicate what that byte means out-of-band. So catastrophe-detection systems could use it as an example.

If a byte takes 15 minutes, your latency is the time of flight plus 15 minutes.

Re: CERN researchers have observed and generated high-energy neutrino radiation

#39

Post by zapdrive »

daveguy wrote: post #18
SaberTail wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone does it, it will be financial firms putting them under stock exchanges to get milliseconds of advantage over anyone following the curvature of the earth.

This implies financial feasibility. It still takes a super collider on one end and a detection tank on the other. But one day it might be feasible. I would think a military warning system would be implemented before a financial aid.

Or a high speed link with all the submarines. It's really hard to communicate with a submarines hundreds of metres under water as radio waves don't go through that much water.

Re: CERN researchers have observed and generated high-energy neutrino radiation

#40

Post by codetrotter »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #25
teawrecks wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would see decisions being made that aren't physically possible with current technology. Also the number of people who would need to keep something like this a secret would be on par with that of a fake moon landing. If their application of the technology were so secret that we couldn't tell it existed, then it wasn't worth whatever they paid.

Presumably it would be used in the case where a split-second decision is the difference between success and failure. > If their application of the technology were so secret that we couldn't tell it existed, then it wasn't worth whatever they paid. I would posit that, were a system like this feasible and already implemented by the military, we wouldn’t hear about this until the football has to be activated. There is n…

What is the football?
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