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Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

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Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#31

Post by nonethewiser »

sylens wrote: post #14
cyral wrote: post #12

Been using .NET for years now for backend web development after having taken a break from C#. It is such an improvement over the old .NET framework. When I started building my first backend with it, I was surprised how much was included and "just worked". Need to add authentication? Few lines. OAuth? Also built in. Response caching? Yes. ORM? EF Core is pretty good. Need to use env variables to override your JSON con…

It really is like finding enlightenment after having to figure out which third party package is best for every little thing in Node. Visual Studio is a pretty powerful IDE as well.

It better be at a 30GB install size.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#32

Post by cm2187 »

I'd be curious to know what is the actual adoption of .net core. I.e. of all the actively developed applications (not just new projects), what is the .net core / .net framework split.

I found that the upgrade process is not seamless. Asp.net core has little to do with asp.net MVC. Winform introduced all sorts of contraints. The BCL is full of small changes or features missing.

People are less vocal than for the python schism, but I'd expect a lot of projects to be stuck on .net framework, not the least because of incompatible dependencies.

Nullable reference type is another massive breaking change coming if they make it more than a compiler warning, which I suspect is the long term intention.

Not breaking your users used to be a laudable goal of the .net team. I miss it.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#33

Post by brushfoot »

.NET has been doing a lot of things right. My startup's codebase is nearly all .NET 7: landing page, web app, Windows service, API. The main non-.NET code is vanilla JS in the web app.

I've been keeping a close eye on Next.js, which is very well done, but I love how versatile .NET is. With one language, I can write all of the above, and my dependencies are minimal thanks to .NET's rich standard library - a refreshing change from the NodeJS apps I've written and maintained.

With native AOT, .NET can even be compiled to native binaries. Recently, I wrote a Windows password filter DLL in C#, which would have been unthinkable some years ago.

It's a really enjoyable stack to work with. Kudos to Microsoft for what they've been doing with it.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#34

Post by nonethewiser »

rbanffy wrote: post #11

I am mostly a Python person, but I must confess I'm impressed by both modern .NET and Java's Spring Boot. I architect for two teams, one using Java, the other using C#, for building services and the amount of boilerplate code, that used to be a huge turnoff for me, has been impressively reduced. There's still a lot, but it's now more or less comparable to what you'd expect you'd end up with on a similar app built on,…

Isn’t there still lots of boilerplate, it’s just generated for you?

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#35

Post by o_bender »

0xDEF wrote: post #10
hdlothia wrote: post #6

I love c# and dotnet. I've been holding off on flutter and praying Maui becomes a real thing

Northern Europe runs on C# and .Net. I am not joking. There are more C# jobs in Denmark than Python, Node.js, Ruby, and PHP jobs combined.

It is surprising to me that C# and .NET is comparatively under-represented in North America where it was born. Nothing but good experience in developing and operating software with it, both desktop apps (Win/Mac) and backend services (Linux).

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#36

Post by smcl »

thenerdhead wrote: post #20
tiffanyh wrote: post #2

It’s a tired thing to say, but the “.NET” naming is so confusing on what’s what. Which is sad because there’s so much to like about .NET

If you could rename it, what would it be and why?

Another good question would be - if you were Microsoft and wanted to plan a roadmap to take the .NET ecosystem forward from a couple of separate implementations (Windows-only .NET Framework, Cross-platform Xamarin) how would you go about this in a way that doesn't cause a big furore like Python 2->3 did?

Because I imagine you end up with what MS did - define a standard that can be used for building common code between new/old, continue support for both, quickly iterate the new while it's still new, be very open about support timelines and document everything pretty thoroughly. You'd just end up with a different set of names for that standard (.NET Standard), and new implementation (.NET Core) that make sense to you, but probably still confuse some people.

I don't think it's perfect, but .NET developers will (or should) all grasp the relationship between .NET Standard/Core/Framework (and now plain ".NET") pretty easily.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#37

Post by magicalhippo »

tester756 wrote: post #24
magicalhippo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ORM? EF Core is pretty good. We're moving to .Net, and I was surprised by how poor the built-in DB stuff is. It's like either assembly or Python, but nothing in the middle. That said I've also been impressed about how nice it is to get stuff going. I used C# back in the .Net 1.1 days and yeah massive difference in ergonomics.

>It's like either assembly or Python, but nothing in the middle. Dapper seems to be in the middle and it is pretty popular

Yeah, but from what I saw it doesn't help much with master-detail setups? Like, inserting or updating an order with order lines etc. We rely heavily on those.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#38

Post by bitwize »

teruakohatu wrote: post #18
0xDEF wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Northern Europe runs on C# and .Net. I am not joking. There are more C# jobs in Denmark than Python, Node.js, Ruby, and PHP jobs combined.

Same in New Zealand.

Both of those places used to have craptons of mission-critical Delphi code. Going to .NET seems a natural transition from that.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#39

Post by bottlepalm »

magicalhippo wrote: post #21
cyral wrote: post #12

Been using .NET for years now for backend web development after having taken a break from C#. It is such an improvement over the old .NET framework. When I started building my first backend with it, I was surprised how much was included and "just worked". Need to add authentication? Few lines. OAuth? Also built in. Response caching? Yes. ORM? EF Core is pretty good. Need to use env variables to override your JSON con…

> ORM? EF Core is pretty good. We're moving to .Net, and I was surprised by how poor the built-in DB stuff is. It's like either assembly or Python, but nothing in the middle. That said I've also been impressed about how nice it is to get stuff going. I used C# back in the .Net 1.1 days and yeah massive difference in ergonomics.

I'd kill for anything close to EF for Node. Selecting complex structures from a database in any of the existing JS ORMs is just painful.
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