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The untapped potential of human programming (2022)

humanprogramming.substack.com

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Re: The untapped potential of human programming (2022)

#31

Post by majormajor »

nathan_compton wrote: post #4

I have to say I'm viscerally turned off by the language here. Perhaps even the idea, although there is obviously nothing objectionable about helping people reach their own goals, per se. The problem here is that this whole angle on human life seems to have forgotten that efficiency, productivity, etc are all there to help us find more time to live in a world where those things don't matter. To have leisure. To think…

The goal of productivity, efficiency, etc, to provide survival is a much older one than the goal of it to provide leisure.

What to do when everyone can have survival and their material needs met is, I think, actually not something people agree on at all.

(And personally I don't think we are at that point yet, in terms of health and medical understanding.)

Re: The untapped potential of human programming (2022)

#32

Post by majormajor »

nickpeterson wrote: post #20
nine_k wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keyboards are a great example. We should just write as people have done for thousands of years Nope, nope, nope. Keyboards are a great thing that save a lot of effort and muscle strain. I did my fair share of handwriting, and I experienced the strain and tiredness firsthand (ha). This is to say nothing of the speed. Ergonomic keyboards make things even easier. So no, we don't always want faster horses, and the heri…

I don’t know, I’m pretty dubious that the problems of the future are grossly aided by faster input. I feel like I think better when I write than when I type, I find that really hard to ignore.

I think and write much better on a modern computer than when writing by hand. And much better than I would on a typewriter.

Don't underestimate the ability to revise multiple times.

At the same time, I design better with a pencil than with Sketchup or LucidCharts or something, for similar "draft then modify" reasons. But that pencil could be "real" on a paper or it could be on a tablet.

Re: The untapped potential of human programming (2022)

#33

Post by susrev »

Regarding the introduction to this essay..

Isn't some of the magic of being an agent in this world taken away when you are following a set of instructions to a T?

Unable to make decisions for yourself without consulting your "virtual assistant" about something as trivial as if you can use y milk in place of x milk seems like a sad reality to me

Re: The untapped potential of human programming (2022)

#34

Post by dmn322 »

majormajor wrote: post #31
nathan_compton wrote: post #4

I have to say I'm viscerally turned off by the language here. Perhaps even the idea, although there is obviously nothing objectionable about helping people reach their own goals, per se. The problem here is that this whole angle on human life seems to have forgotten that efficiency, productivity, etc are all there to help us find more time to live in a world where those things don't matter. To have leisure. To think…

The goal of productivity, efficiency, etc, to provide survival is a much older one than the goal of it to provide leisure. What to do when everyone can have survival and their material needs met is, I think, actually not something people agree on at all. (And personally I don't think we are at that point yet, in terms of health and medical understanding.)

I think that’s based purely on your assumptions. Elephants chill and play and splash in the water when they reach the water on the west coast of Africa after migrating across the continent.

They’re not the only animals doing this kind of thing. Animals not in captivity generally seem to enjoy their lives. Deprive an animal of dopamine and it will surely start to wither away.

If you’re talking about humans, i find it very difficult to believe governments predate chilling with your friends with some palm wine or something.

Pleasure was an integral part of life until the accidental AI that is capitalism started manipulating human behavior for its own survival.

Re: The untapped potential of human programming (2022)

#35

Post by majormajor »

dmn322 wrote: post #34
majormajor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of productivity, efficiency, etc, to provide survival is a much older one than the goal of it to provide leisure. What to do when everyone can have survival and their material needs met is, I think, actually not something people agree on at all. (And personally I don't think we are at that point yet, in terms of health and medical understanding.)

I think that’s based purely on your assumptions. Elephants chill and play and splash in the water when they reach the water on the west coast of Africa after migrating across the continent. They’re not the only animals doing this kind of thing. Animals not in captivity generally seem to enjoy their lives. Deprive an animal of dopamine and it will surely start to wither away. If you’re talking about humans, i find it…

I would say leisure was "for free" for humans too but was often traded for productivity for survival, which was more precarious.

I found the book Metropolis to be a good history of that in the form of "what did cities look like over the years" - cities were dirty, crowded, less healthy, etc, than a lot of alternative lifestyles but they also supplied the material essentials in predictable and more reliable ways.

If physical survival was easy to do leisurely then there wouldn't have been the motivation for more complex forms of society (many of which had very-unfun roles for many participants long before capitalism).

Re: The untapped potential of human programming (2022)

#36

Post by hanoz »

rr808 wrote: post #30
hanoz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people working full time could live perfectly well on a tenth their wage. Now that is patently untrue. For most people 10% wouldn't come close to paying the rent alone.

I didn't say they would be able to live in the same space, they'd have to share with family, and/or cram into one room and/or live in a poorly built house, like people in poorer countries do, and we did 150 years ago.

I take you point, but even then it wouldn't be enough.

Re: The untapped potential of human programming (2022)

#37

Post by dmn322 »

majormajor wrote: post #35
dmn322 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s based purely on your assumptions. Elephants chill and play and splash in the water when they reach the water on the west coast of Africa after migrating across the continent. They’re not the only animals doing this kind of thing. Animals not in captivity generally seem to enjoy their lives. Deprive an animal of dopamine and it will surely start to wither away. If you’re talking about humans, i find it…

I would say leisure was "for free" for humans too but was often traded for productivity for survival, which was more precarious. I found the book Metropolis to be a good history of that in the form of "what did cities look like over the years" - cities were dirty, crowded, less healthy, etc, than a lot of alternative lifestyles but they also supplied the material essentials in predictable and more reliable ways. If p…

"then there wouldn't have been the motivation for more complex forms of society" Anyway, your mention of the motivation for more complex forms of society reminds me of this book which it seems like you might like. If you're vaguely interested but probably not going to read it I can summarize, but I don't want to spoil it if you think you'd read it: https://www.google.co.id/books/edition/The_Collapse_of_Compl...
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