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“Clean Code, Horrible Performance” Discussion

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Re: “Clean Code, Horrible Performance” Discussion

#31

Post by wirrbel »

pkolaczk wrote: post #8

It is debatable if Clean Code actually improves the programmer efficiency and programs readability. I find people applying it religiously often create over-complex designs like FizzBuzz Enterprise. Even Uncle Bob's examples are not the state of the art in readability: https://qntm.org/clean The main problem seems to be that Clean Code is mostly a premature optimisation in code flexibility. It makes code more complex…

Robert C Martin's (who is not my uncle) Clean Code book/advice is what I would call junior programmer material. Its good to get someone started to think about better ways of writing software (albeit is hasn't aged very well).

I don't recommend it to juniors anymore because it hasn't aged well and is for my taste hyperbolic in its promises.

IMHO clean code also is more focused on code implementing "business logic" than "systems programming" for example (probably a bit tricky to actually define what the difference is between these too).

Re: “Clean Code, Horrible Performance” Discussion

#32

Post by readlikeasloth »

wirrbel wrote: post #31
pkolaczk wrote: post #8

It is debatable if Clean Code actually improves the programmer efficiency and programs readability. I find people applying it religiously often create over-complex designs like FizzBuzz Enterprise. Even Uncle Bob's examples are not the state of the art in readability: https://qntm.org/clean The main problem seems to be that Clean Code is mostly a premature optimisation in code flexibility. It makes code more complex…

Robert C Martin's (who is not my uncle) Clean Code book/advice is what I would call junior programmer material. Its good to get someone started to think about better ways of writing software (albeit is hasn't aged very well). I don't recommend it to juniors anymore because it hasn't aged well and is for my taste hyperbolic in its promises. IMHO clean code also is more focused on code implementing "business logic" tha…

This begs the question: what do you recommend instead?

Re: “Clean Code, Horrible Performance” Discussion

#33

Post by tester756 »

I'm starting to hate programming discussions, after you've read a lot of them they're predictable, boring as hell and you can argue endlessly just because you value a little bit different things.

This discussions is yet another, nothing special way of saying: context matters.

You have a list of requirements of what you want to achieve, some of them do appear during development and you develop against this.

I have completely no idea why "software part of the internet" is losing their shit over those 2 guys arguing since it doesn't seem to be "deeper" than 2 random people arguing in some random comment chain.

Re: “Clean Code, Horrible Performance” Discussion

#34

Post by oweiler »

pkolaczk wrote: post #8

It is debatable if Clean Code actually improves the programmer efficiency and programs readability. I find people applying it religiously often create over-complex designs like FizzBuzz Enterprise. Even Uncle Bob's examples are not the state of the art in readability: https://qntm.org/clean The main problem seems to be that Clean Code is mostly a premature optimisation in code flexibility. It makes code more complex…

Not only is it debatable, you never see any type of evidence. And how would you measure it?

Re: “Clean Code, Horrible Performance” Discussion

#35

Post by CraftingLinks »

wirrbel wrote: post #31
pkolaczk wrote: post #8

It is debatable if Clean Code actually improves the programmer efficiency and programs readability. I find people applying it religiously often create over-complex designs like FizzBuzz Enterprise. Even Uncle Bob's examples are not the state of the art in readability: https://qntm.org/clean The main problem seems to be that Clean Code is mostly a premature optimisation in code flexibility. It makes code more complex…

Robert C Martin's (who is not my uncle) Clean Code book/advice is what I would call junior programmer material. Its good to get someone started to think about better ways of writing software (albeit is hasn't aged very well). I don't recommend it to juniors anymore because it hasn't aged well and is for my taste hyperbolic in its promises. IMHO clean code also is more focused on code implementing "business logic" tha…

Uncle Bob,the eternal noob of programming.

Re: “Clean Code, Horrible Performance” Discussion

#36

Post by markeibes »

readlikeasloth wrote: post #32
wirrbel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robert C Martin's (who is not my uncle) Clean Code book/advice is what I would call junior programmer material. Its good to get someone started to think about better ways of writing software (albeit is hasn't aged very well). I don't recommend it to juniors anymore because it hasn't aged well and is for my taste hyperbolic in its promises. IMHO clean code also is more focused on code implementing "business logic" tha…

This begs the question: what do you recommend instead?

Programming practice

Re: “Clean Code, Horrible Performance” Discussion

#37

Post by Aperocky »

Simple > Complex.

Every extra year I spend in engineering, it's becoming clear that this is actually one of the only few things that mattered in the long run. I would say this is one of the best if not the best advice in programming and even in life.

If clean code doesn't follow that, ditch.

Re: “Clean Code, Horrible Performance” Discussion

#38

Post by fulafel »

pkolaczk wrote: post #8

It is debatable if Clean Code actually improves the programmer efficiency and programs readability. I find people applying it religiously often create over-complex designs like FizzBuzz Enterprise. Even Uncle Bob's examples are not the state of the art in readability: https://qntm.org/clean The main problem seems to be that Clean Code is mostly a premature optimisation in code flexibility. It makes code more complex…

Interesting that he now prefers Clojure, where rules like "function names should be verbs" take a 180 and become don'ts.

Re: “Clean Code, Horrible Performance” Discussion

#39

Post by javaunsafe2019 »

tester756 wrote: post #33

I'm starting to hate programming discussions, after you've read a lot of them they're predictable, boring as hell and you can argue endlessly just because you value a little bit different things. This discussions is yet another, nothing special way of saying: context matters. You have a list of requirements of what you want to achieve, some of them do appear during development and you develop against this. I have com…

This. Thank you. Also the amount of claims and self confidence in this thread by people not even able to back their claims with examples is hilarious imo.

Re: “Clean Code, Horrible Performance” Discussion

#40

Post by foo42 »

robalni wrote: post #26
pkolaczk wrote: post #8

It is debatable if Clean Code actually improves the programmer efficiency and programs readability. I find people applying it religiously often create over-complex designs like FizzBuzz Enterprise. Even Uncle Bob's examples are not the state of the art in readability: https://qntm.org/clean The main problem seems to be that Clean Code is mostly a premature optimisation in code flexibility. It makes code more complex…

I used to like to rewrite code that I thought was "ugly" because it was not written in the modern way or it was not very generic or whatever. I thought that doing that was often pretty easy so I thought "why has no one done this already?" Later I realized that the fact that it was easy to change was what made it good and the changes I wanted to make to it would probably just make it more complicated. That's the dange…

that last paragraph is an excellent description of the problem!
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