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Zero energy ready homes are coming

energy.gov

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Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#31

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

boringg wrote: post #22
s1artibartfast wrote: post #13

This is a pet issue of mine, having lived in two off grid homes going back to the 80's. The barriers are not materials, technology, or labor, but purely regulatory. I could take my current home off permanently grid with solar today for less than 10k but to do so would be illegal. Permitted grid connected solar costs 5x that and disconnecting from the grid is not permitted.

To be fair - technology is lacking for people living in the city to be able to go off grid in a meaningful way. Disconnecting from the grid - that sounds like there's some kind of clause in the area that you live that essentially ties you to the utility. You must live in on the pacific coast or SW. EDIT: To all the responses - I'm talking off grid as in all functionality. Sure you can add solar / solar thermal etc th…

> for people living in the city to be able to go off grid in a meaningful way.

Everyone has a use for hot water. You can always have off-grid solar heating an auxiliary tank to take the load off the primary water heater.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#32

Post by mindslight »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #13

This is a pet issue of mine, having lived in two off grid homes going back to the 80's. The barriers are not materials, technology, or labor, but purely regulatory. I could take my current home off permanently grid with solar today for less than 10k but to do so would be illegal. Permitted grid connected solar costs 5x that and disconnecting from the grid is not permitted.

> Permitted grid connected solar costs 5x that and disconnecting from the grid is not permitted.

Why not treat them as independent problems - an off-grid solar system for most of your electricity, while also maintaining a nominal (/backup) grid connection? If your home is already connected to the grid, then I would think the ongoing cost would be minimal and could be viewed as just another tax.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#33

Post by potmat »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #13

This is a pet issue of mine, having lived in two off grid homes going back to the 80's. The barriers are not materials, technology, or labor, but purely regulatory. I could take my current home off permanently grid with solar today for less than 10k but to do so would be illegal. Permitted grid connected solar costs 5x that and disconnecting from the grid is not permitted.

> disconnecting from the grid is not permitted

Wait, what? What happens if you just don't pay your bill?

Edit: Or just disconnect internally, meaning you use no power.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#34

Post by orcajerk »

boringg wrote: post #22
s1artibartfast wrote: post #13

This is a pet issue of mine, having lived in two off grid homes going back to the 80's. The barriers are not materials, technology, or labor, but purely regulatory. I could take my current home off permanently grid with solar today for less than 10k but to do so would be illegal. Permitted grid connected solar costs 5x that and disconnecting from the grid is not permitted.

To be fair - technology is lacking for people living in the city to be able to go off grid in a meaningful way. Disconnecting from the grid - that sounds like there's some kind of clause in the area that you live that essentially ties you to the utility. You must live in on the pacific coast or SW. EDIT: To all the responses - I'm talking off grid as in all functionality. Sure you can add solar / solar thermal etc th…

Things may be different now but some cities used to the condemn the house if it did not have electricity from a provider. It is a scam, considering most people did not have electricity even 100 years ago.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#35

Post by mikeyouse »

oh_sigh wrote: post #18
jabart wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things switched from insulating the wall cavity to insulating the outside of the house. Engineers started to factor in the insulation value of a 2x6 compared to the insulation it was next to and the heat loss in cold climates. Same applies for hot climates. Now these homes are being wrapped in insulation on the outside with all joints sealed, then insulated on the inside and essentially pressure tested for air leaks.…

I understand you can just check the pressure during a blower test to see if there are leaks, but how do they actually identify where the leaks are? Go around all over the house with a smoke gun?

Largely yes. You don't need to survey every inch though since leaks aren't present in the middle of walls, but typically at complex areas (around windows, roof penetrations, can lights, outlets, rim joists, etc) so a little smoke quickly IDs those issue areas. Another way way to find leaks is to run the blower door tests on a day where there's a large temperature differential (ideally when it's very cold outside). You can use a thermal camera before the test and then after you depressurize the house for a 10 or 15 minutes - the leaky areas are perfectly obvious on the thermal since the cold outdoor air is washing over the walls near the leaks. Taking the before/during thermal videos on a walkthrough lets you compare the side-by-side later on and ID which spots need attention.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#36

Post by Syonyk »

ortusdux wrote: post #26
Syonyk wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because those actually work. But they're also tricky to operate properly. This seems more like "I want you to feel good about your purchase while you're still dependent on external energy inputs." If you can find details on what it actually requires, please, share, because I've spent the past 15 minutes snoofing around and I sure can't find it.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2022-10/DOE%20ZER...

Thanks. So gas water heaters are fine. Yay?

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#37

Post by s1artibartfast »

boringg wrote: post #22
s1artibartfast wrote: post #13

This is a pet issue of mine, having lived in two off grid homes going back to the 80's. The barriers are not materials, technology, or labor, but purely regulatory. I could take my current home off permanently grid with solar today for less than 10k but to do so would be illegal. Permitted grid connected solar costs 5x that and disconnecting from the grid is not permitted.

To be fair - technology is lacking for people living in the city to be able to go off grid in a meaningful way. Disconnecting from the grid - that sounds like there's some kind of clause in the area that you live that essentially ties you to the utility. You must live in on the pacific coast or SW. EDIT: To all the responses - I'm talking off grid as in all functionality. Sure you can add solar / solar thermal etc th…

That's fair if you're talking about all utilities in the city. Sewer and water are the main problems in an urban environment. Rooftop solar on the other hand is dirt cheap and only slightly more complicated to install then plugging in a toaster.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#39

Post by ortusdux »

la64710 wrote: post #12

$5000 tax credit for a ZERH home that may cost $400k to build. Just from an incentive pov is it enough to swing the needle? Most probably I am glossing over something.

My take on this is that they are making the equivalent of an Energy Start certification for housing. In theory, having this cert should raise the value of the house. I view the $5k as a way to offset the cost of applying.
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