Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 60 posts

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#31

Post by smeej »

HeresTheT wrote: post #16
bsaul wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does sound like common sense to me though... I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Either we consider kids to be kids, and thus not totally "settled" psychologically (for the lack of a better word), or we don't. PS: the issue of taking kids custody out of trans parents is an entirely…

> I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Thankfully, there is data here. First, sex change surgery and chemical procedures are not what you think they are. The care given to teenagers is typically "puberty blockers", which are temporary and reversible drugs that delay the onset of puberty…

That regret rate stat is often-touted, but extremely out of date. It may have been accurate back when 0.3% of people, most of them adults, were the sample set of "people who had undergone gender-affirming medical treatment," but now approximately ten percent of children, a 30x increase, are identifying as some type of transgender, and we simply do not have current regret statistics.

It would be great if the reality were as you described, that children were receiving years of dedicated psychotherapy to address and rule out other issues before being provided cross-sex hormones (which, if given after puberty blockers, permanently sterilize the recipient), but it's just not the case. There are many, many places kids can get needed "referrals" from one visit without their parents' knowledge or consent.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#32

Post by drivingmenuts »

bsaul wrote: post #11
hairofadog wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, how many minors do you believe undergo sex-reassignment surgery?

i do hope this isn't more than a couple per year, worldwide. I don't have the numbers, but my fear is the "trend" effect. The fact that this issue is becoming widely discussed can easily influence teenagers into believing this is the solution to their problem (that's what teenagers do : they get easily influenced).

> i do hope this isn't more than a couple per year, worldwide.

Why? Unless you are the person involved, or part of their family, why would you even have a concern about someone else’s gender choice? You’re not the one who has to live their life and there’s a pretty low chance you’ll have any knowing contact with them whatsoever.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#33

Post by Pigalowda »

krapp wrote: post #27
wesleywt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't understand how a trans-parent makes a child at "risk" of getting hormones. Republicans have taken a Twitter issue and made it their only platform. I wonder how much traction a hate campaign will get you in an election. Going by the mid-terms, not that much.

This isn't a "Twitter issue," this is the result of a moral panic created by the political normalization of QAnon within the post-Trumpist Republican Party and their "groomer" conspiracy theories[0,1]. They believe trans identity is a vector for pedophilia and child abuse and that trans people want to forcibly "convert" children against their will. It's Pizzagate combined with the Satanic Panic of the 1980s, and unfo…

That's a very hot take!

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#34

Post by xracy »

smeej wrote: post #31
HeresTheT wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Thankfully, there is data here. First, sex change surgery and chemical procedures are not what you think they are. The care given to teenagers is typically "puberty blockers", which are temporary and reversible drugs that delay the onset of puberty…

That regret rate stat is often-touted, but extremely out of date. It may have been accurate back when 0.3% of people, most of them adults, were the sample set of "people who had undergone gender-affirming medical treatment," but now approximately ten percent of children, a 30x increase, are identifying as some type of transgender, and we simply do not have current regret statistics. It would be great if the reality w…

[Citation Needed]

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#35

Post by mcphage »

smeej wrote: post #31
HeresTheT wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Thankfully, there is data here. First, sex change surgery and chemical procedures are not what you think they are. The care given to teenagers is typically "puberty blockers", which are temporary and reversible drugs that delay the onset of puberty…

That regret rate stat is often-touted, but extremely out of date. It may have been accurate back when 0.3% of people, most of them adults, were the sample set of "people who had undergone gender-affirming medical treatment," but now approximately ten percent of children, a 30x increase, are identifying as some type of transgender, and we simply do not have current regret statistics. It would be great if the reality w…

> are identifying as some type of transgender, and we simply do not have current regret statistics.

It's hard to have regret statistics for identifying as transgender, because if you regret identifying as transgender, you just... stop. Regret statistics are irrelevant, because it's not a decision with long term consequences.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#36

Post by xracy »

bsaul wrote: post #11
hairofadog wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, how many minors do you believe undergo sex-reassignment surgery?

i do hope this isn't more than a couple per year, worldwide. I don't have the numbers, but my fear is the "trend" effect. The fact that this issue is becoming widely discussed can easily influence teenagers into believing this is the solution to their problem (that's what teenagers do : they get easily influenced).

Feels like a lot of hand-wringing over a statistic you could actually look up.

Also, worrying about the "Trend" is dangerous given that there's just not that many trans people in society, and in recent years we've gone from "very few of them" transitioning to "some of them" transitioning.

If what you're legitimately concerned about is the "trend of people talking about this", then you should consider that this bill and bills like it are more likely to force people into a rash decision because if it takes effect, then there's no telling when they'd be able to transition, so maybe they should rush their transition. Think of this as a version of the Streisand effect.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#38

Post by xracy »

Chronoyes wrote: post #15
HeresTheT wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida Senate Bill 254 is the bill. The text of the bill: https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023 The fact that this made it to the senate and house in Florida is a story worth discussing.

[flagged]

If this isn't the problem with the internet, I don't know what is.

"No no, I don't want the primary source unfiltered, I want my preferred bias already added into the discussion, so I can know how to feel about it."

The above is how this statement reads to me after your first request.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#39

Post by lostmsu »

HeresTheT wrote: post #16
bsaul wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does sound like common sense to me though... I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Either we consider kids to be kids, and thus not totally "settled" psychologically (for the lack of a better word), or we don't. PS: the issue of taking kids custody out of trans parents is an entirely…

> I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Thankfully, there is data here. First, sex change surgery and chemical procedures are not what you think they are. The care given to teenagers is typically "puberty blockers", which are temporary and reversible drugs that delay the onset of puberty…

> temporary and reversible drugs

According to a short overview of the subject, this is false. Temporarity is questionable, and there are significant adverse side effects, especially in girls. E.g. https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/20636/Risk-of-pseu... . None of which should be surprising to anyone who read anything about hormonal treatments.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#40

Post by bsaul »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #32
bsaul wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i do hope this isn't more than a couple per year, worldwide. I don't have the numbers, but my fear is the "trend" effect. The fact that this issue is becoming widely discussed can easily influence teenagers into believing this is the solution to their problem (that's what teenagers do : they get easily influenced).

> i do hope this isn't more than a couple per year, worldwide. Why? Unless you are the person involved, or part of their family, why would you even have a concern about someone else’s gender choice? You’re not the one who has to live their life and there’s a pretty low chance you’ll have any knowing contact with them whatsoever.

because having the biology of one genre and the psychology of another seems a condition bad enough that i hope very very few people on earth experience it.
Post reply on HN