Live data from Hacker News

A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

social.treehouse.systems

31–40 of 301 posts

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#31
post #2

The post is interesting itself, but the addendum, > This post brought to you by gdb and grep -a Where author recovers text from Firefox core dump, is just hilarious.

That part also grabbed my attention. How would I do the core dump? (How do I attach gdb to Firefox? Doesn’t it need debug data from the compiler like what you get with gcc -Og?)

You can attach gdb to any process. Debug information is not needed unless you want nice things like knowing which lines of code you are stepping through.

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#32
I wonder how they model the energy output of the speakers. In principle you could have a function that calculates the energy of the spectrum and integrate that over time. If you put out too much energy, what do you do? Reduce the overall volume, apply a frequency cutoff, or a low-pass-filter? I feel there are so many variables here, and it is going to be hard to replicate what Apple does.

I know the Asahi-Linux people are very correct, but I'd be tempted to just throw the Apple libraries into Ghidra and see what they do.

And a completely unreleated thought, maybe it is possible to remove the safetly limits on speakers of other brands and apply the same strategy to get better sound?

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#33

I keep trying out Android phones and Windows laptops but the hardware are always inferior to Apple products. The competition has caught up and even surpassed Apple in Software but Apple has a big lead in chips, speakers, build quality.

Curious to know, which competition caught up Apple on software?

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#34

I still don't get it why, because they drive them past the nominal volume limit? MacBooks definitely sound much better than anything else I've tried. Just bought a new ThinkPad P14s and despite featuring the Dolby logo, speakers there are just unusable - I can barely understand words in YouTube videos sometimes, and it's not related to volume. (Still using T430 for bedtime YouTube.)

It's because "volume limit" is fuzzy. It's more like cpu turbo boost - if you put a lot of frequency energy into the speakers they will overheat, but not instantly. Most vendors just say "In worst case (square wave) you can shove 2W continuous energy into the speakers and they'll probably be ok", but this is saying "you can spike more energy into the tweeters/woofers for a short time, but they'll heat up. Make sure they don't go over 140C. Oh, and by the way, my woofers and tweeters have these gains, so you can balance them properly rather than just guessing"

If you look at Marcan's video stream you can see how the system watches the temperatures of the coils https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjuYJjkGhRo&t=22214s

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#35
post #3
post #2

The post is interesting itself, but the addendum, > This post brought to you by gdb and grep -a Where author recovers text from Firefox core dump, is just hilarious.

That's an incredibly useful trick and now I wonder if there is a small Windows utility that makes it easy to recover similar ghost data?

gdb is a general-purpose debugger. The equivalent tool for Windows is windbg [0] which is free and extremely powerful, though famously arcane. You can certainly do this with it.

[0] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/d...

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#36
post #9

IDK, it pales in comparison to any decent monitor speaker. Even the cheapest. Laptops unfortunately always sounds "from inside a cardboard box".

I think your experience might be outdated. My M1 Mac's screen broke recently and I'm forced to use it with the lid closed and an external screen until I get a replacement. I'm using the cheapest external screen I can get because I don't like using external screens and am just bridging the gap until I get a new laptop. The monitor speakers are absolutely horrible, frankly I don't understand why they even added them. I…

There is a difference between "monitor speaker" and "speaker built-into the monitor". The parent might have had the former in mind.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_monitor:

Among audio engineers, the term monitor implies that the speaker is designed to produce relatively flat (linear) phase and frequency responses.

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#37
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your experience might be outdated. My M1 Mac's screen broke recently and I'm forced to use it with the lid closed and an external screen until I get a replacement. I'm using the cheapest external screen I can get because I don't like using external screens and am just bridging the gap until I get a new laptop. The monitor speakers are absolutely horrible, frankly I don't understand why they even added them. I…

Bought an M1 for my SO two years ago. You can tell she's playing sound through it from another room, even the TV built-in speakers sound better. I am not dissing Apple devices in particular, but rather all laptops. With speakers so small, there's only that much one can do. But then again, criticizing Apple hardware is a downvote bonanza every time, because Apple users need to feel like a particular demographic .

Perhaps you're being downvoted because saying "tiny laptop speakers worse than big, expensive, dedicated studio monitor speakers" doesn't add anything to the discussion?

Any 14"+ Apple laptop since 2019 sounds much better than any other laptop that's ever been in the market. The 2019 15" and all 16" models even more so.

They're so good that before covid we stopped using the Jabras at the office for confs and started using the laptops.

They're good enough for lightweight music playing and even watching some TV.

No, they don't compare to monitor speakers. No, they don't compare to my 7.1.4 surround system. No, they don't compare to any decent room-sized stereo or surround setup. They are still pretty great.

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#38
When I first got my current MacBook Air the sound totally surprised me. It seemed like it was coming from places to the left and to the right of the actual device. I kept moving my head around that space to try to find the weird source of the sound! It truly blew me away. But then that sensation disappeared. Now I don't notice this? I like the AirPod head tracking, but this "spookily surround sound" that I noticed at first was very fucking cool!

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your experience might be outdated. My M1 Mac's screen broke recently and I'm forced to use it with the lid closed and an external screen until I get a replacement. I'm using the cheapest external screen I can get because I don't like using external screens and am just bridging the gap until I get a new laptop. The monitor speakers are absolutely horrible, frankly I don't understand why they even added them. I…

There is a difference between "monitor speaker" and "speaker built-into the monitor". The parent might have had the former in mind. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_monitor : Among audio engineers, the term monitor implies that the speaker is designed to produce relatively flat (linear) phase and frequency responses.

Yep I misunderstood their comment completely. I think you're right and that's what they had in mind. In which case they're right but I think are making a comparison that is not exactly useful.

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#40

This is curious reading since my Intel MacBook speakers crackled all the time as it grounded through me.

Before anyone jumps in to say the issue is grounding and that it's your fault for having bad wiring: ground wires are not installed by default in all countries.

If you live in one of these countries, in rented accomodation, there's not much you can do about this.

And yet, most electronics are fine. It seems like MacBooks are some of the worst though, giving you shocks and crackling audio.

Post reply on HN