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EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

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Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#31

Post by pyuser583 »

oblio wrote: post #20
pyuser583 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is very economically integrated with China. But it is not socially or politically integrated with China. Same could be said with US/Mexico, China/Taiwan, etc. The European Project sees social and political integration as ends themselves. It uses economic advantages as a way to convince voters to adopt policies that aren’t economically required.

> The US is very economically integrated with China. No, it's not. It is slightly economically integrated, and mostly in terms of physical goods. Are American IP laws applicable in China and the other way around? For example when licensing a Disney movie in the US, can I distribute it in China? Do you get warranty in China for any good sold in the US and vice versa? Do both countries use, by law, the same systems of…

None of these three things require open borders, which the EU insists on.

In fact, the Canada has all three in common with the EU.

But the EU insists on open borders because they want social and political integration, not just economic integration.

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#32

Post by treeman79 »

ta1243 wrote: post #23
nirimda wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a problem with any legislative process that begins with the executive obligating the country to adopt certain specific laws, and only then asks the legislature whether those certain specific laws should become the law of the land. I don't fully understand the logic of this kind of legislative process. If the EU can make it binding on member states to introduce a certain law, why not perform the entire proces…

Three groups passed this law * The EU Commission (headed by commissioners appointed by the government of the members, 1 per member) * The EU council (makde up of the heads of government of the members, 1 vote per member) - so sort of in line with US senate as originally enacted (where the state government chooses the senators) * The EU parliament (voted directly by the population, broadly in line with the population,…

Constitution gives federal government certain rights. Everything else is up to states. So states could declare murder legal. But would probably fail as a 1st amendment violation. Which is part of the constitution is above federal law.

Now the constitution grants federal government, the right to regulate interstate commerce. Which has been abused horribly to regulate things that have nothing to do with interstate commerce.

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#33

Post by SllX »

ta1243 wrote: post #23
nirimda wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a problem with any legislative process that begins with the executive obligating the country to adopt certain specific laws, and only then asks the legislature whether those certain specific laws should become the law of the land. I don't fully understand the logic of this kind of legislative process. If the EU can make it binding on member states to introduce a certain law, why not perform the entire proces…

Three groups passed this law * The EU Commission (headed by commissioners appointed by the government of the members, 1 per member) * The EU council (makde up of the heads of government of the members, 1 vote per member) - so sort of in line with US senate as originally enacted (where the state government chooses the senators) * The EU parliament (voted directly by the population, broadly in line with the population,…

Not quite. It’s overlapping jurisdiction and overlapping sovereignty.

Murder would still be illegal under common law, but let’s take your hypothetical and say that it wasn’t, and say that a state didn’t have a statute against murder: the Federal Government could prosecute under Federal law in the Federal court system.

The States have no obligation to charge under that same Federal statute though, and in fact can’t because it’s not their law.

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#34

Post by oblio »

pyuser583 wrote: post #31
oblio wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US is very economically integrated with China. No, it's not. It is slightly economically integrated, and mostly in terms of physical goods. Are American IP laws applicable in China and the other way around? For example when licensing a Disney movie in the US, can I distribute it in China? Do you get warranty in China for any good sold in the US and vice versa? Do both countries use, by law, the same systems of…

None of these three things require open borders, which the EU insists on. In fact, the Canada has all three in common with the EU. But the EU insists on open borders because they want social and political integration, not just economic integration.

My list was not an exhaustive list :-)))

> But the EU insists on open borders because they want social and political integration, not just economic integration.

Yes, they do. You don't know what the EU project is about. You don't know its history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_European_Union

> After the war on 19 September 1946 Chruchill went further as a civilian, after leaving office, at the University of Zürich, calling for a United States of Europe

> To ensure Germany could never threaten the peace again, its heavy industry was partly dismantled (See: Allied plans for German industry after World War II) and its main coal-producing regions were either awarded to neighbouring countries (Silesia), managed as separate directly by an occupying power (Saarland) or put under international control (Ruhr area)

> The founding fathers of the European Union understood that coal and steel were the two industries essential for waging war, and believed that by tying their national industries together, a future war between their nations became much less likely.

The EU was always a political union.

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#35

Post by oblio »

nirimda wrote: post #18
oblio wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems to be a process designed and intended to cause conflict and euroscepticism. Just like the EU itself, it's a compromise. Every member state wants to have its cake (economic benefits) and eat it, too (full sovereignty). That can't work because a deep economic integration is... surprise, surprise, a deep political and social integration. The EU Parliament is probably the only parliament in the world that I kn…

Introduce new laws (into operation) or introduce new bills (into the agenda)? I thought it could introduce new laws that were directly applicable so long as they were related to certain matters. But the bills for the laws have to be introduced by the commission. The whole thing is sufficiently confusing that I could be wrong. Anyway, I'm not entirely sure that it is a standard EU compromise. The governments wrote the…

> I can't believe they didn't know what they were doing - taking power from their own colleagues in parliaments.

That's the compromise :-) I forget when exactly it happened, but I'm quite sure it coincided with an increase in the scope of EU responsibilities.

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#36

Post by s1artibartfast »

ta1243 wrote: post #23
nirimda wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a problem with any legislative process that begins with the executive obligating the country to adopt certain specific laws, and only then asks the legislature whether those certain specific laws should become the law of the land. I don't fully understand the logic of this kind of legislative process. If the EU can make it binding on member states to introduce a certain law, why not perform the entire proces…

Three groups passed this law * The EU Commission (headed by commissioners appointed by the government of the members, 1 per member) * The EU council (makde up of the heads of government of the members, 1 vote per member) - so sort of in line with US senate as originally enacted (where the state government chooses the senators) * The EU parliament (voted directly by the population, broadly in line with the population,…

It's also worth highlighting that in the US Federal representatives are democratically elected by the constituents whereas EU commissions are appointed. The US has Federal commissions called committees, but they have less legislative power

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#37

Post by sacrosancty »

ta1243 wrote: post #26
nirimda wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The directive was approved by the European parliament and the Council of the EU. The Council of the EU is made up of the governments of the member states of the EU. Therefore, when one says "Portugal voted for the directive", one means "the government of Portugal voted for the directive in the Council of the EU". This was the wrong thing for Portugal (or indeed, any government) to do because no government can guarant…

My understanding in the US is that the Executive can sign international treaties, and those are not subject ot veto by the Legislative > In recent decades, presidents have frequently entered the United States into international agreements without the advice and consent of the Senate. These are called "executive agreements." Though not brought before the Senate for approval, executive agreements are still binding on t…

[dead]

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#38

Post by xeromal »

SllX wrote: post #33
ta1243 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three groups passed this law * The EU Commission (headed by commissioners appointed by the government of the members, 1 per member) * The EU council (makde up of the heads of government of the members, 1 vote per member) - so sort of in line with US senate as originally enacted (where the state government chooses the senators) * The EU parliament (voted directly by the population, broadly in line with the population,…

Not quite. It’s overlapping jurisdiction and overlapping sovereignty. Murder would still be illegal under common law, but let’s take your hypothetical and say that it wasn’t, and say that a state didn’t have a statute against murder: the Federal Government could prosecute under Federal law in the Federal court system. The States have no obligation to charge under that same Federal statute though, and in fact can’t be…

Great distinction. It's how states get away with making weed "legal" even thought its illegal federal. Today, a federal agent could easily charge with you having a schedule 1 drug on your person in California and it would easily ruin your life. Banks generally won't deal with weed stores for this very reason so California had a vote to make it's on state-run bank but I can't remember if it passed.

That said, I don't think federal agents ever charge anyone primarily for possessing weed though I wouldn't be surprised if they add it on to an additional charge.

Re: EU sues Member States who refuse to bring in new copyright rules

#40

Post by piuantiderp »

Retric wrote: post #28
pyuser583 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is very economically integrated with China. But it is not socially or politically integrated with China. Same could be said with US/Mexico, China/Taiwan, etc. The European Project sees social and political integration as ends themselves. It uses economic advantages as a way to convince voters to adopt policies that aren’t economically required.

The China/US link is frequently overestimated it’s only 14% of total US trade. China isn’t even the US’s largest trading partner, it’s 3rd after Canada and Mexico, with a small lead over the EU. Really though the top 4 spots are all fairly close to each other.

I know that at least for Mexico, a lot of the trade with China has final destination the US.
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