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Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

economist.com

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Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#31

Post by mschuster91 »

biggieshellz wrote: post #17
conanbatt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cuts both ways. What about the homeless person dying in the cold because he can't afford shelter due to sky high building requirements - is that included in the building code enforcement rules?

That's more due to exclusionary zoning than building codes. There is no reason why we couldn't build, for instance, a boarding house under modern building codes, which would create more affordable housing on the low end. The reason that doesn't get built is that the zoning doesn't allow it.

> The reason that doesn't get built is that the zoning doesn't allow it.

The problem is not just zoning. A boarding house simply doesn't generate noticeable income compared to standard residential housing, and with exploding land prices it simply makes no sense financially to cater to poor people.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#32

Post by kerpotgh »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #11

If I remember correctly, Turkiyé (did I spel it write?) has always had a bunch of rolling heads, after buildings fall down like dominoes, during their frequent quakes. Doesn't seem to have changed things. Japan, on the other hand, seems to have a really hard-core construction ethos. During quakes there, buildings rock around like they are at a rave, and don't fall down. If we ever have a big quake in New York, we're…

Well New York isn’t on an active fault line. I think California would fare pretty well, as much as can be expected after the big one.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#33

Post by giantrobot »

conanbatt wrote: post #13
mabbo wrote: post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

It cuts both ways. What about the homeless person dying in the cold because he can't afford shelter due to sky high building requirements - is that included in the building code enforcement rules?

> What about the homeless person dying in the cold because he can't afford shelter due to sky high building requirements - is that included in the building code enforcement rules?

That's ridiculous. There's a hundred different issues causing a homeless person to die on the street. Building code regulations are way down that fucking list of somewhat barely related causes.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#34

Post by seizethecheese »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #11

If I remember correctly, Turkiyé (did I spel it write?) has always had a bunch of rolling heads, after buildings fall down like dominoes, during their frequent quakes. Doesn't seem to have changed things. Japan, on the other hand, seems to have a really hard-core construction ethos. During quakes there, buildings rock around like they are at a rave, and don't fall down. If we ever have a big quake in New York, we're…

I’m close with someone who does inspections in both US and third world contexts. Apparently, the US pretty much complies with safety related building codes compared to many other places.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#35

Post by mschuster91 »

xxpor wrote: post #30
biggieshellz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more due to exclusionary zoning than building codes. There is no reason why we couldn't build, for instance, a boarding house under modern building codes, which would create more affordable housing on the low end. The reason that doesn't get built is that the zoning doesn't allow it.

That's partially true, but it's really a combo of both. Things like dual staircase requirements, elevator size requirements, and sprinkler requirements make it extremely expensive to build any sort of housing. A recent affordable building in SF cost over $1 million per unit. That's completely unsustainable.

> Things like dual staircase requirements, elevator size requirements, and sprinkler requirements make it extremely expensive to build any sort of housing.

And you want and need precisely that in a house with fluctuating occupants of which a high percentage will have some sort of mental health issue.

Cutting corners on boarding houses will lead to fire catastrophes.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#36

Post by wongarsu »

biggieshellz wrote: post #17
conanbatt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cuts both ways. What about the homeless person dying in the cold because he can't afford shelter due to sky high building requirements - is that included in the building code enforcement rules?

That's more due to exclusionary zoning than building codes. There is no reason why we couldn't build, for instance, a boarding house under modern building codes, which would create more affordable housing on the low end. The reason that doesn't get built is that the zoning doesn't allow it.

Or just regular medium density housing, like say 4-story 8 unit buildings. The stuff that makes up the majority of the housing stock in most Western countries, but seems impossible to build in most of the US due to zoning.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#37

Post by jmole »

biggieshellz wrote: post #17
conanbatt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cuts both ways. What about the homeless person dying in the cold because he can't afford shelter due to sky high building requirements - is that included in the building code enforcement rules?

That's more due to exclusionary zoning than building codes. There is no reason why we couldn't build, for instance, a boarding house under modern building codes, which would create more affordable housing on the low end. The reason that doesn't get built is that the zoning doesn't allow it.

Setback, minimum square footage, minimum parking are all part of “building codes”, and can be used to enforce zoning and restrict development without sounding as political as “zoning”.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#38

Post by dmd »

mschuster91 wrote: post #26
mabbo wrote: post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

> Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead. Or fire codes. Related off-topic reminder, in the hope it may save one life one day: please use this comment as a reminder to check upon the status of your smoke alarms, carbon monoxide alarms and fire extinguisher. At the very least every room where people sleep in should have a smoke alarm and every room with a furnace (boiler, oven, kitchen,…

> Fire extinguishers should be inspected by a licensed professional every two years

I (in an affluent US east coast suburb) called my fire dept's non-emergency line to ask about this once a few years ago, and they told me this isn't something they do. So who does it?

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