How a heat pump works • Hacker News Board

Re: How a heat pump works

#31

Post by mr_mitm » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 2:26 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #7

What is going on? Is there a global push to get everyone to switch to heat pumps. It seems that there is heat pump content everywhere. Clearly there is a push. I understand that its for climate benefits but it feels very coordinated. edit: didn't realize the attention I would get. Let me add someone answered my question -- a good product market fit and people talking is probably where the push came from. That said HV…

You should expect this impression to become more intense. How else will you heat your home without emitting greenhouse gasses? Electric space heaters are vastly inferior for obvious reasons. Everything else is out because we eventually need to achieve (net) zero emissions. And since there are a lot of gas and oil heaters to be replaced, heat pumps will only increase in demand.

Re: How a heat pump works

#32

Post by vintermann » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 2:26 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #15

mhb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and gas stoves bad.

The 'gas stoves bad' movement isn't a push, it's a pull.

I think the underlying reason for it is that lots of engineering types got air quality sensors during corona, and noticed PM levels spiking from cooking. Or just people getting more IAC-conscious in general.

This technology connections YouTuber I've seen pop up in lots of discussions on these topics.

Re: How a heat pump works

#33

Post by Maxburn » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 2:26 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #7

What is going on? Is there a global push to get everyone to switch to heat pumps. It seems that there is heat pump content everywhere. Clearly there is a push. I understand that its for climate benefits but it feels very coordinated. edit: didn't realize the attention I would get. Let me add someone answered my question -- a good product market fit and people talking is probably where the push came from. That said HV…

YES. There is a massive electrification push right now because electric items can be fed from "sustainable" things like wind/dam/solar and don't emit CO or CO2 in operation.

Heat pumps are also inexpensive on initial cost and less expensive than straight AC with gas heat.

They are also low maintenance in comparison to straight AC with gas heat.

Very popular units in southern US.

Re: How a heat pump works

#34

Post by notdarkyet » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #7

What is going on? Is there a global push to get everyone to switch to heat pumps. It seems that there is heat pump content everywhere. Clearly there is a push. I understand that its for climate benefits but it feels very coordinated. edit: didn't realize the attention I would get. Let me add someone answered my question -- a good product market fit and people talking is probably where the push came from. That said HV…

I see this as well and it looks to be multiple people buying in to the campaign, especially here on HN.

Having lived in a new, high end apartment that had a heat pump for both heating and cooling for 3 years, I am very unimpressed with the tech. Running nonstop, couldn't heat/cool above/below a certain threshold. Electric bill very high. Clogged and broke a lot. If the general radiant heat and cooling from being in large building didn't exist, I couldn't see this working halfway decent in any place in the midwest. This might work for areas with less variable temperature ranges but for the midwest USA, not seeing it.

Re: How a heat pump works

#35

Post by roywiggins » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

manojlds wrote: post #25

practice9 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is that suddenly everybody understood that Russia is an unreliable partner for their countries energy needs (at least in Europe). For consumers it's also became clear that being slightly more independent from centralized heating and/or energy infrastructure is a good thing

Suddenly, as in Crimea didn't happen?

Suddenly understood

Re: How a heat pump works

#36

Post by Lutger » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #7

What is going on? Is there a global push to get everyone to switch to heat pumps. It seems that there is heat pump content everywhere. Clearly there is a push. I understand that its for climate benefits but it feels very coordinated. edit: didn't realize the attention I would get. Let me add someone answered my question -- a good product market fit and people talking is probably where the push came from. That said HV…

Just the hivemind I guess, doesn't feel coordinated to me but rather obvious. In my country the waiting time for heat pumps is now over a year. People can't stop talking about energy, the war and their utility bills. Heat pumps are very on topic.

Any reasons to change my mind?

Re: How a heat pump works

#37

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

jcstauffer wrote: post #5

WatchdogReset wrote: post #2

The heat pumps are one of the means of heating (and air conditioning) in the heart of the news. What is their principle of operation. You can ask questions here if there are points to clarify in the course

I'd like to get a heat pump to replace my existing baseboard hot-water system (currently powered by an oil furnace) without converting to a heated air system. From what I've read, that's not quite feasible yet, since current systems can't produce a high enough temperature. What are the prospects of that technology becoming viable in the next few years?

Figure out the minimum flow (supply) temperature that can meet your building heat loss on the design day. If you have enough radiation, you might be able to get by with 135°F flow.

I have baseboard in the attic and cast iron rads on the main level. I have the flow set to 126°F until the outside air temp drops below 30°F and then I increase by 2°F for every 4°F change in OAT. So at 2°F OAT, I have 140°F flow.

That’s enough to maintain temp in my fairly poorly insulated 1920s house near Boston. It’s enough to slowly recover temp as well.

140°F is a stretch for air to water heat pumps, but you could reasonably use an A2W for most of the year and supplement with a 9kW (31KBTU/hr) electric boiler as emergency supplemental heat and use that a couple days per year.

What killed it for me (and the reason I have a fairly new gas boiler installed) is the upfront cost was utterly uncompetitive.

If you have a condensing boiler, set the high-limit or flow temp to 130-135°F and see how your house handles it on the cold days. You can measure and calculate all you want, but nothing beats trying it.

Re: How a heat pump works

#38

Post by vintermann » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 2:29 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #9

boringg wrote: post #7

What is going on? Is there a global push to get everyone to switch to heat pumps. It seems that there is heat pump content everywhere. Clearly there is a push. I understand that its for climate benefits but it feels very coordinated. edit: didn't realize the attention I would get. Let me add someone answered my question -- a good product market fit and people talking is probably where the push came from. That said HV…

> Is there a global push to get everyone to switch to heat pumps. I mean, yes. They're much more energy efficient than the alternatives and will play a key part of removing our dependence on fossil fuels. > I understand that its for climate benefits but it feels very coordinated. That seems like a good thing?

Yeah. If some people came together at Davos or whatever and decided "we need to promote heat pumps!", you can be sure they would mess it up. Consent can maybe be manufactured. Enthusiasm is organic, for good and bad.

Re: How a heat pump works

#39

Post by mhb » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 2:29 PM UTC

mhb wrote: post #8

boringg wrote: post #7

What is going on? Is there a global push to get everyone to switch to heat pumps. It seems that there is heat pump content everywhere. Clearly there is a push. I understand that its for climate benefits but it feels very coordinated. edit: didn't realize the attention I would get. Let me add someone answered my question -- a good product market fit and people talking is probably where the push came from. That said HV…

That and gas stoves bad.

Google Trends: "heat pump", "gas stove":

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2021-01-10%202...

Re: How a heat pump works

#40

Post by rhussmann » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 2:29 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #7

What is going on? Is there a global push to get everyone to switch to heat pumps. It seems that there is heat pump content everywhere. Clearly there is a push. I understand that its for climate benefits but it feels very coordinated. edit: didn't realize the attention I would get. Let me add someone answered my question -- a good product market fit and people talking is probably where the push came from. That said HV…

At least in NYC, new installations of gas and oil boilers for building and water heating will be regulated away in favor of electric-heating means (like heat pumps) by 2025: https://www.silive.com/news/2022/12/new-yorks-new-roadmap-to...

This is, of course, the regulation as it stands today; things can always change. Additionally NYC alone likely doesn't account for the attention. But, other metros and municipalities could have similar legislation.