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Stop developing this technology

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Re: Stop developing this technology

#31

Post by jevgeni »

pfortuny wrote: post #14
jolmg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"must" is probably the wrong word, but if they don't develop it, someone else will. At most, it would be delayed, and I'm not sure there's much difference in that.

Right. Tell that to Einstein, who just before Hiroshima realized it was not such a good argument. That is a nice piece of history. Ethics is important. And one consequence is: I may die but at least it was not because I made it possible.

Yeah, theory of relativity and tech with use cases mostly in porn and fraud aren't really the same thing.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#33

Post by thejarren »

kefka_p wrote: post #25

Can anybody demonstrate a legitimate use of deepfake software? Has it ever been used to facilitate a socially positive or desirable outcome? While I recognize my experiences are far from definitive, I hazard most would be hard pressed to name anything positive that came out of deepfake technology. edit: I’ll take your knee-jerk DV, and any others, as an admission of an inability to speak to positive utility of this t…

Edit: this comment is referring to deepfakes more broadly, and is not a commentary on the validity of the source linked here. I can't speak to the reputability of the community developing this, or how it has been used so far. -- I'm a fairly visual and imaginative person, and it's pretty easy for me to come up with some very useful applications. No hostility intended, genuinely sharing my thoughts:

1. CGI for video editing - lower the bar of entry to de-age actors, or use a stand-in. Actor can't make it to a shoot that day? No worries, replace their face in post easily.

2. Identity protection - Cold call with someone that reached out to you, you're not sure if they're safe or dangerous, could be a good way to protect yourself.

3. Social media content for clients - become a fake avatar for hire essentially, customize your narrator for any video or brand. Video call centers with fake video (they already have voice modifiers and fake names), Enhanced VTuber sort of things (virtual avatars for streaming).

4. Unexpected outcomes: for example Holly Herndon created (and sold) access to an AI replica of her singing voice (n1), and I could see artists selling or renting access to their faces.

Obviously this can and will be used maliciously, but I personally could see myself using it for more positive reasons.

n1. https://holly.mirror.xyz/54ds2IiOnvthjGFkokFCoaI4EabytH9xjAY...

Re: Stop developing this technology

#34

Post by mihaic »

HN seems to actively work on a cognitive dissonance: on the one hand producing inspirational stories of entrepreneurs changing the world and on the other abandoning all hope that technology/market forces can be controlled in any way.

I'm thinking now this is to justify away the collective guilt of bringing into the mainstream harmful products.

It seems to come from the same origins as "crypto can't be regulated", "government can't to anything", "it's ok because it's legal" and it's always worrying me to not really see any sort of moral stance being taken anymore.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#35

Post by rvieira »

Particularly ironic using the defence of "it’s not the technology that’s to blame, but the person, not the machine gun, but the person".

Machine guns, an advanced piece of engineering widely known to being developed purely as an academic exercise. No one could expect other uses.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#36

Post by number6 »

polytely wrote: post #30
number6 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are lifing just fine with car related deaths. The rate is much higher than suicide rates. Bullying is alive and well even without this tech. I guess scissoring out a photo from the yearbook and glue it in a porn magazine would work as good. It is not about believability but about the psychological damage when it comes to bullying

But with cars there is an upside, we tolerate it because it is so usefull and the government does its best to make it as safe as possible, setting requirements that need to be met for you to legally use it. In this case there isn't that much upside, it's basically only being used for non-consensual porn generation and impersonating people

Upside: Consensual porn generation and consensual impersonation.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#37

Post by atemerev »

mihaic wrote: post #34

HN seems to actively work on a cognitive dissonance: on the one hand producing inspirational stories of entrepreneurs changing the world and on the other abandoning all hope that technology/market forces can be controlled in any way. I'm thinking now this is to justify away the collective guilt of bringing into the mainstream harmful products. It seems to come from the same origins as "crypto can't be regulated", "go…

Well for me, crypto is highly moral and should be developed to prevent artificial trading restrictions and eliminate borders. There are many people who consider individual freedom to be of highest importance, and who are willing to develop any technology promoting it.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#39

Post by bigDinosaur »

yipbub wrote: post #11

I'm convinced that this idea that technology is completely neutral is wrong. It is not neutral in the face of human psychology. The human species is a different animal that the human individual, and it is powerful, but does not make truly conscious decisions. Once you let the genie out of the bottle, a wish will be made. A technology might not be inherently bad, but neither are knives, and we don't leave those lying…

'Technology is neutral' is simply a banal observation that technology is only ever used by humans who can decide what to do with it. It's not saying that a new technology doesn't enable new and terrible human choices, simply that those choices rest with the people, not the technology itself.

Knives seem like the perfect example, really. We do leave them lying around in our drawers, usually under zero real security against any malicious guest, but we recognise it is about the choices of the people we invite into our houses, not the existence of the knives themselves, that is the real danger.

You can certainly argue though as you have that humans simply shouldn't have the choice to do certain things - what comes to mind immediately is nuclear weapons.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#40

Post by dusted »

ano88888 wrote: post #7
dusted wrote: post #6

I think it's a good thing. Not that it's being used for evil things, but because it should help make it obvious that you can't trust anything you see on a screen. Using fake media to trick people into believing anything used to be a privileged reserved for nation states and the ultra rich. Now that _ANYONE_ and their cat can do it, it should follow that nobody can believe anything that's on a screen anymore (this com…

Right. When that chaos happen, just remember that you will not be safe from it

Whats your alternative? Attempt to hide the fact that everything can be easily faked, and that you don't need to be a hollywood studio to do it? What good do you think that does? Instill a false sense of security and trust in a medium which cannot bear it ? How's that not worse?

Even outright banning this technology won't make a dent in the bad uses, since those individuals are highly motivated, highly competent and don't care the least about the ban..

It's not like the development won't happen, it will just be hidden, making it less obvious to the potential victims (increasing the size of this group, since you then need to be "in the know").

So no, the only way forward is to have this out in the open as much as possible so that as many people as possible become aware of how trivial it already is to fake stuff.

So, what are you saying ?

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