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Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

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Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#31

Post by smca »

capableweb wrote: post #11
sleepyhead wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that 3DSecure is required for all European cards we should have been seeing lower fees since that requirement. Instead fees are going up.

Also, as far as I can understand https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/how-disputes-work , Stripe doesn't actually do anything manual in the process, it's all handled by the users bank or automatically by Stripe (notifications, taking fees and so on). So how it got more expensive for Stripe?

Stripe is charged every time a user faces a dispute. These fees have been increasing in recent years.

Managing disputes is also a costly and manual process for our users. So we’ve invested heavily in ways to help mitigate disputes from occurring in the first place with Stripe Radar (incl. by default), or by using Chargeback Protection (where we cover the disputed amount and waive any fees without needing to submit any evidence).

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#32

Post by maest »

> payouts will be higher due to increases in network costs (in recent years, major card networks have introduced several new fees and increased existing fees), as well as increases in underlying service costs.

Can someone from the industry offer more colour on what this actually means?

It strikes me that pricing for companies like Stripe should go down, not up in the long run. They're fairly well insulated from inflation (as pricing is % of transaction value), so the only reason I can think of for price _increases_ would be increased regulatory burden or some sort of structural industry change.

The vagueness with which Stripe justifies the price increase makes me think this is not supported by actual cost increases, but by a desire to increase profits. (which, hey, if you can put prices up and customers won't leave, then great - but it would be good to know the actual reason)

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#33

Post by superzamp »

01acheru wrote: post #2

Something needs to change in the digital payments sector. 1.5% is ok-ish but 3.25% to accept foreign cards in the EU is a lot of money! I understand that costs are higher when using credit cards because of the credit part that introduces risk, but in my case for example I have a debit card that runs also over Mastercard, so either I have the money or I don't. Why should a merchant be charged the same fee of using a r…

The problem with SEPA payment, is that it's great for the merchant and a net loss for the user, especially individual consumers.

From a UX perspective today, it will always be more cumbersome to initiate a SEPA transfer to the merchant. Some integrations offer a semblance of interactivity with your banking app in an attempt to streamline it, but nothing beats the simplicity entering your cards details or just showing your face to Apple pay. Then from a consumer protection perspective, if something wrong happen with your order or the merchant goes bust, you have no recourse if you initiated a SEPA CT. Card payments on the other hand give you a nice chain of large entities exposing themselves to the merchant's credit risk in front of you.

It can probably work in specific situations (e.g. if you have a niche website with a sophisticated audience ready to overcome the hurdles to acquire your widgets), but for these reasons alone I just can't see SEPA payments going anywhere near even a ridicule fraction of the market share held by legacy card networks yet.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#34

Post by pjan »

sleepyhead wrote: post #3

"Businesses in the EEA who are paying out in USD to a US-domiciled bank account will now incur a 1% fee, with a minimum fee of US$2.50 per payout." This is absurd. A 1% fee to transfer USD to a USD bank account? The alternative is to charge in another currency - which Stripe will put a 2% currency fee on. This is already on top of their expensive transaction costs. Will actively look for alternatives now.

As far as I understand, you can payout in USD on a EEA domiciled account, and you won’t be incurring any fees.

It’s the crossborder settlement which they charge for, which I don’t think is crazy, as it just reflects the underlying costs Stripe must be incurring themselves.

As someone who ran a business in multiple countries, the bank always charged similar fees for these transfers between accounts. Stripe letting me settle directly in the account where I want the money to land, rather than me having to log in to my bank and initiating a transfer manually where fees are ~the same is definitely a better option, which I’m happy they offer.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#35

Post by account42 »

01acheru wrote: post #2

Something needs to change in the digital payments sector. 1.5% is ok-ish but 3.25% to accept foreign cards in the EU is a lot of money! I understand that costs are higher when using credit cards because of the credit part that introduces risk, but in my case for example I have a debit card that runs also over Mastercard, so either I have the money or I don't. Why should a merchant be charged the same fee of using a r…

One funny thing is that some card transactions (e.g. contactless payments without PIN entry over 100€ for at least one payment processor, needs to be enabled by the merchant) actually don't go trough Visa/Mastercard but are already done via SEPA.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#36

Post by carlosjobim »

amelius wrote: post #13
capableweb wrote: post #4

Some European alternatives you might be able to find/negotiate better fees with: - mollie (Netherlands) - adyen (Netherlands) - Klarna (Sweden) - Paylike (Denmark) - Mangopay (Luxembourg) - Quickpay (Denmark) (added in edit) The ones I've tried of those, have an OK development experience, maybe not as polished as Stripe, but much better than the alternatives that were around before Stripe (huge hassle back then). Ide…

Aren't there open source libraries available that abstract away the payment processor?

No, they have to be with to a payment processor. But you can get a better deal than Stripe if you have a business mid-size and up. You can program that connection yourself, but honestly, if you are able to pull it off you will start selling that solution for a suitable price and that's where we are at today. And I think that is good.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#37

Post by justincormack »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #29
orangepanda wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Traders in the EU are not allowed to charge you extra for using your credit or debit card. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pri...

Interesting. So foreign cards have to be accepted at the same price? I know credit card fees are capped in EU, so this might be a reasonable policy, but if merchants and domestic customers have to eat costs due to foreign card costs via higher prices for everyone, that does not seem fair.

Some expensive cards (historically mainly Amex) are just not accepted widely.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#38

Post by reacharavindh »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #16
01acheru wrote: post #2

Something needs to change in the digital payments sector. 1.5% is ok-ish but 3.25% to accept foreign cards in the EU is a lot of money! I understand that costs are higher when using credit cards because of the credit part that introduces risk, but in my case for example I have a debit card that runs also over Mastercard, so either I have the money or I don't. Why should a merchant be charged the same fee of using a r…

> SEPA in EU is already something but it is taking ages for it to become an actual payment platform in everyday's life. Is there anything stopping merchants from offering different prices to people based on different payment methods? I assume the reason merchants do not list a discount for paying via SEPA or ACH or debit card or whatever local non credit card (and non Visa/Amex/MC) option, is because merchants benefi…

I think this indirectly happens. I live in Haarlem, Netherlands, and some popular supermarkets in my area would not accept a VISA/Mastercard. They only accept Maestro(Which I think is cheaper for them because it is a debit card that Dutch banks give out). I found it surprising because that should mean they lose out on some business from so many expats that visit/live in Netherlands, but apparently not.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#39

Post by capableweb »

smca wrote: post #31
capableweb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, as far as I can understand https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/how-disputes-work , Stripe doesn't actually do anything manual in the process, it's all handled by the users bank or automatically by Stripe (notifications, taking fees and so on). So how it got more expensive for Stripe?

Stripe is charged every time a user faces a dispute. These fees have been increasing in recent years. Managing disputes is also a costly and manual process for our users. So we’ve invested heavily in ways to help mitigate disputes from occurring in the first place with Stripe Radar (incl. by default), or by using Chargeback Protection (where we cover the disputed amount and waive any fees without needing to submit an…

> Stripe is charged every time a user faces a dispute.

Is this charge returned to Stripe if the bank rules in the favor of the Stripe user? Or did that change recently as well, as now Stripe won't hand back the fee in case the dispute is overturned.

Thanks a lot for jumping into the thread with some more facts.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#40

Post by olau »

capableweb wrote: post #4

Some European alternatives you might be able to find/negotiate better fees with: - mollie (Netherlands) - adyen (Netherlands) - Klarna (Sweden) - Paylike (Denmark) - Mangopay (Luxembourg) - Quickpay (Denmark) (added in edit) The ones I've tried of those, have an OK development experience, maybe not as polished as Stripe, but much better than the alternatives that were around before Stripe (huge hassle back then). Ide…

Now that you mention a Danish one, Quickpay (Denmark) has been around for a long time.
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