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Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

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Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#31

Post by faeriechangling »

nyrulez wrote: post #28
faeriechangling wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>why the rush to rule them out? They were just introduced on a broad scale, so rushing to rule them out is only natural, as they are something it would be reasonable to suspect of causing this. You after all rule out likely suspects first. The only thing thing besides the vaccines that come to mind having caused this is widespread lifestyle changes society wide as well as the most overwhelmingly obvious reason this t…

I don't fully understand. Are you saying since vaccines were broadly introduced, they are less likely to be the culprit? How is that implied? 30% increase in heart attacks in young age group is pretty broad too. This study doesn't study vaccination cohorts to imply any association either way

No, I’m saying vaccines are so plausibly the culprit you would want to immediately subject them to analysis as to if they are the cause of the trend asap, but a natural consequence of any such analysis is you are very likely to do the opposite and rule them out as a cause.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#32

Post by briantakita »

autoexec wrote: post #29
nyrulez wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to draw conclusions because first graph is not the delta in deaths, just total deaths. and southern states have always had a high cardiovascular mortality. I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? Whenever this discussion comes up, its either complete blame or zero blame. How about investigate it like any other factor with the help of proper data? A…

> I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? I don't believe that anyone has completely ruled out vaccines. I think that's a boogeyman conspiracy theorists tell each other "The possible risks from vaccines are forbidden from being considered or talked about!". It's attractive to conspiracy minded people to have secret suppressed information that "they" don't want yo…

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Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#34

Post by nyrulez »

autoexec wrote: post #29
nyrulez wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to draw conclusions because first graph is not the delta in deaths, just total deaths. and southern states have always had a high cardiovascular mortality. I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? Whenever this discussion comes up, its either complete blame or zero blame. How about investigate it like any other factor with the help of proper data? A…

> I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? I don't believe that anyone has completely ruled out vaccines. I think that's a boogeyman conspiracy theorists tell each other "The possible risks from vaccines are forbidden from being considered or talked about!". It's attractive to conspiracy minded people to have secret suppressed information that "they" don't want yo…

I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination/covid status. If I was rolling out a new vaccine at the national level, this is the first thing I could collect to be able to make conclusions either way. And it's not a complicated thing to collect too.

Blood clots have gone up significantly for younger people in last two years. Is that due to covid or due to vaccination? We can't answer this simple enough question because we refuse to collect data. This is directly from my hematologist btw who is an expert in blood clots at a famous hospital. That itself suggests either bias or complacency to me.

Would you be against data collection? It's not implying anything.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#35

Post by autoexec »

nyrulez wrote: post #34
autoexec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? I don't believe that anyone has completely ruled out vaccines. I think that's a boogeyman conspiracy theorists tell each other "The possible risks from vaccines are forbidden from being considered or talked about!". It's attractive to conspiracy minded people to have secret suppressed information that "they" don't want yo…

I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination/covid status. If I was rolling out a new vaccine at the national level, this is the first thing I could collect to be able to make conclusions either way. And it's not a complicated thing to collect too. Blood clots have gone up significantly for younger peop…

> I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination/covid status.

What is your evidence that there is zero data being collected on this? What is your evidence that we refuse to collect this data?

I can prove that the issue is being considered along with every other side effect experienced by people taking these vaccines. Research on the subject already exists, how is that possible if no one is collecting data? VAERS continues to collect data on the side effects experienced by people who have taken the vaccine, which is then being evaluated by researchers. What evidence you do you have that this isn't happening?

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#36

Post by graeme »

godelski wrote: post #18

Does anyone have link to the full text? (can't access from my institution) I ask because they seem to point to covid but there are lots of other factors that need to be considered that are quite obviously causal. For example obesity is on the rise[0], including a ~5% between 1999 and 2019. I think it would be unsurprising to anyone that obesity increased in a period where we all shifted to online and that regular exe…

Heart attack deaths were steadily falling until the pandemic, over a period when obesity rose massively.

Obesity is linked to heart attacks but larger rises than could have happened in past three years didn’t cause a population level of heart attack deaths

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#37

Post by nyrulez »

autoexec wrote: post #35
nyrulez wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination/covid status. If I was rolling out a new vaccine at the national level, this is the first thing I could collect to be able to make conclusions either way. And it's not a complicated thing to collect too. Blood clots have gone up significantly for younger peop…

> I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination/covid status. What is your evidence that there is zero data being collected on this? What is your evidence that we refuse to collect this data? I can prove that the issue is being considered along with every other side effect experienced by people taking th…

1. My doctor(s) (in USA) told me so. They were not aware of any data collection around this and my condition. I did explicitly ask them.

2. Where is this data? If it's being collected, we should be able to see it or clear conclusions from it? It's a very simple data set too. I have not seen any clear national level data or any discussion around it for vaccination status/blood clots in any media.

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#38

Post by upsidesinclude »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #17

For those who are desperate to draw a link between vaccines and heart attacks, this article essentially says the opposite of that. While the paper itself doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, it does contain a graph showing a state-by-state breakdown of acute myocardial infarction (AMI)-associated deaths: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/c0aed082-9f81-4a88... Dark purple is a…

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Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#39

Post by tremere »

aliqot wrote: post #33

What if this is just due to people on average being the fattest and most stressed out they've ever been? Being inside for a few years didn't help everyone physically.

Obesity has been trending up even before the pandemic. I don't see how driving through stressful traffic for 60-120+ minutes per day and eating restaurant food is supposed to make anyone healthier. In my personal experience, the pandemic led me to build a home gym and prepare my own food, both of which have seem to have led to better health both "objectively" (weight, cholesterol, CRP, VO2max) and subjectively (how I "feel").

Re: Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

#40

Post by thinking4real »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #17

For those who are desperate to draw a link between vaccines and heart attacks, this article essentially says the opposite of that. While the paper itself doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, it does contain a graph showing a state-by-state breakdown of acute myocardial infarction (AMI)-associated deaths: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/c0aed082-9f81-4a88... Dark purple is a…

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