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Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

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Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#31

Post by tomsthumb »

shkkmo wrote: post #17
EarlKing wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally this. You'd have to twist yourself into a legal pretzel to somehow claim that because teachers act in loco parentis for children in their care that now somehow their supervisors have power of attorney over their charges. This is one of those cases where the idiots involved deserve to get hit with a huge fine for filing a frivolous lawsuit. No, not the school district, but those involved. Personally.

How does "power of attorney" have any relevance here? The argument is simply that the school district has suffered damages from specific behavior by the social media companies, that has nothing to with an ability to make decisions on the student's behalf.

>How does “power of attorney” have any relevance here?

It doesn’t and that’s Earl’s point. That would be the best way for them to have any standing, but it just doesn’t line up.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#32

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

whatshisface wrote: post #9
xrd wrote: post #4

So far, two comments saying this is grandstanding by the school board. If you replace social media with drugs and high schoolers with homeless people, wouldn't it be more typical for people to be saying that elected officials aren't doing ANYTHING! What's the difference? I have read enough to know that these social media companies are employing behavioral scientists that are attempting to make their products addictiv…

> these social media companies are employing behavioral scientists Companies have employed behavioral scientists for at least a century now. Cigarette companies never got in trouble for hiring psychologists to devise their advertising (addiction triggers), but for the damage their products did. They could invent a new rule against exploiting human psychology but that does not have a precedent of illegality.

Cigarette companies were explicitly banned from advertising to children for this exact reason. I don’t think this is a good example, because if they’re comparable then social media should be banned from advertising to children also.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#33

Post by EarlKing »

shkkmo wrote: post #17
EarlKing wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally this. You'd have to twist yourself into a legal pretzel to somehow claim that because teachers act in loco parentis for children in their care that now somehow their supervisors have power of attorney over their charges. This is one of those cases where the idiots involved deserve to get hit with a huge fine for filing a frivolous lawsuit. No, not the school district, but those involved. Personally.

How does "power of attorney" have any relevance here? The argument is simply that the school district has suffered damages from specific behavior by the social media companies, that has nothing to with an ability to make decisions on the student's behalf.

Having read the complaint, no, it doesn't have relevance here (obviously I made that claim prior to reading the complaint), but what they do assert is even worse: They're trying to claim that use of Facebook, Tiktok, etc and consequent behavioral issues among students constitutes a nuisance. The phrase "void for vagueness" would seem to apply here.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#34

Post by shkkmo »

Calvin02 wrote: post #13
xrd wrote: post #4

So far, two comments saying this is grandstanding by the school board. If you replace social media with drugs and high schoolers with homeless people, wouldn't it be more typical for people to be saying that elected officials aren't doing ANYTHING! What's the difference? I have read enough to know that these social media companies are employing behavioral scientists that are attempting to make their products addictiv…

I think the premise that no social media = no depressed kids is pretty weak, imo. Also, what's social media? Are messaging apps not social media? This feels like another one of those 'violent video games are bad' arguments.

> I think the premise that no social media = no depressed kids is pretty weak, imo.

That's clearly not the premise.

> Also, what's social media? Are messaging apps not social media?

The lawsuit makes specific claims about specific behavior by specific companies.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#35

Post by sitkack »

whatshisface wrote: post #9
xrd wrote: post #4

So far, two comments saying this is grandstanding by the school board. If you replace social media with drugs and high schoolers with homeless people, wouldn't it be more typical for people to be saying that elected officials aren't doing ANYTHING! What's the difference? I have read enough to know that these social media companies are employing behavioral scientists that are attempting to make their products addictiv…

> these social media companies are employing behavioral scientists Companies have employed behavioral scientists for at least a century now. Cigarette companies never got in trouble for hiring psychologists to devise their advertising (addiction triggers), but for the damage their products did. They could invent a new rule against exploiting human psychology but that does not have a precedent of illegality.

> never got in trouble for hiring psychologists to devise their advertising

When is the last time you saw Joe Camel?

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#36

Post by DueDilligence »

danielfoster wrote: post #27
DueDilligence wrote: post #20

.. as a Seattle dad .. I fucking love this awkward yet clearly precedent-setting case. I know most of the board and the majority of us are fed up and taking the power we have to task and accountability. This has been in the works for over four years and we know the end game: new laws, adopted by other cities and states. .. it’s been a clearly focused project for over 4 years now. One of my friends is on the board. I…

The lawsuit is going to be dismissed due to lack of standing.

.. it’s been a clearly focused project for over 4 years now. A colleague is on the board..A bevy of mental health experts are core to this - so due diligence. I don’t know the layout of the legal team, but was told they have put this thru the ringer - the goal has always been a legal precedent, then actual legislation, then adoption by other entities as well. The Portland School District has a parallel lawsuit as well on the tails of ours.

.. I suggest this light reading: https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=7.48

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#37

Post by fleddr »

Had any of this harm been physical, everybody would be cheering to combat it. But because it's mental, it's "not real", right?

Behavioral scientists can plot any metric against the last decade and it spectacularly deviates from what came before it, in a bad way. A seismic shift.

It's a problem. A massively complicated problem where regulation will be tricky. For the record, even Zuckerberg himself has practically begged for regulation in response to issues affecting teen girls specifically.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#38

Post by charcircuit »

shkkmo wrote: post #25
charcircuit wrote: post #15

This lawsuit is an embarrassment using a compilation of anti social media arguments including misleading ones where the truth is twisted to make an argument. >Meta also delays the time it takes to load the feed. “This is because without that three-second delay, Instagram wouldn’t feel variable.” This isn't a fact. They are literally quoting speculation from Vice while making it seem like an official quote from Meta.…

> They are literally quoting speculation from Vice while making it seem like an official quote from Meta. They literally provide the exact source of the quote. It is speculation but it isn't unreasonable since we know they've made similar types if decisions to maximize engadgement.

While they quote the article they don't make it clear who they are quoting or that it is speculation. Yes, one can check the article to see if the quote is coming from information from Meta, but one shouldn't have to.

>we know they've made similar types if decisions to maximize engadgement

Name a similar decision. The closest thing to this I can think of is from gacha games and not social media sites.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#39

Post by shkkmo »

danielfoster wrote: post #27
DueDilligence wrote: post #20

.. as a Seattle dad .. I fucking love this awkward yet clearly precedent-setting case. I know most of the board and the majority of us are fed up and taking the power we have to task and accountability. This has been in the works for over four years and we know the end game: new laws, adopted by other cities and states. .. it’s been a clearly focused project for over 4 years now. One of my friends is on the board. I…

The lawsuit is going to be dismissed due to lack of standing.

Similar (ish) lawsuits, (like the one against Juuls) haven't been dismissed. What makes you think this one is different?

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#40

Post by LarryMullins »

danielfoster wrote: post #27
DueDilligence wrote: post #20

.. as a Seattle dad .. I fucking love this awkward yet clearly precedent-setting case. I know most of the board and the majority of us are fed up and taking the power we have to task and accountability. This has been in the works for over four years and we know the end game: new laws, adopted by other cities and states. .. it’s been a clearly focused project for over 4 years now. One of my friends is on the board. I…

The lawsuit is going to be dismissed due to lack of standing.

TikTok offers their service to people they know to be teenagers, during school hours, when those teenagers are inside the school building (with TikTok's tracking of users, they surely know it.)

I don't expect this lawsuit to succeed, but it's not entirely without merit and I do think the school district has some standing if for no other reason than because TikTok is serving videos to, and accepting uploads from, students who are actually in school.

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