I'm always surprised about the price of solar panels in the US, I think we paid about €1.2/W. It's not like labor is cheap in Belgium.
Is that the subsidized (ie, including tax rebates) price, or the raw cost?
Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
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Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#32Interesting to see a post about this from someone else who I'm assuming is in a northern climate (they say New England). One of my biggest questions about solar is, what happens when it snows? Do you have to get up on the roof and clean them off by hand? Or do they have built-in defrosters?
You don't produce much in the winter anyway, you can brush it off the panels with an extendable broom but it will naturally melt and slide off. Unless you have snow cover all winter you'd likely spend more on the extendable broom than you'd produce from the panels.
My brother-in-law's panels produce just as much electricity at noon in the winter time as they do in the summer time. Winter sun in the Canadian prairies is quite intense, and the panels are more efficient at -20C than they are at +20C.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#33> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.
Sounds great to me. Especially considering you aren't paying any taxes on your returns when they come in the form of deferred costs. That's equivalent to a pre-tax return in the mid-teens. You won't find that in most asset classes these days, and definitely not with the risk profile of solar.
Especially considering most modern panels are expected to still have a good amount of life left in them after 25 years. (80% or more}
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#34It's surprising that it's possible to produce electricity at home for a lower cost than the wholesale price.
I can't think of any other commodity for which this is possible. You couldn't make your own steel, bread or printer paper at home and beat manufacturing at scale.
Why is electricity different?
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#35I am surprised at these power bills, at least in my area the implied "savings" are 2-3 times what my bill is on any given month. Huge house maybe?
That was not takeaway as well -this person seemingly lives on an estate. I do not think most roofs even have the space for 21 panels.
Having 21 panels requires a rectangle 17ft by 24ft (each panel is 5.4ft by 3.25ft). That's far from an estate: if it's a two story home with a flat roof you're talking 816sqft compared to a US median of 2,300sqft.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#36I paid ~15k to install solar in 2019. After tax rebates it was ~11k. I’m generating ~12MWh per year. My break even period is less than 5 years. I’m based out of California, and generate excess energy. My electric bill is now just ~$100/year.
if you generate excess energy, can you store it for a later time when you need more energy (presumably summer time)?
You would need batteries which are quite expensive at this time.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> One of my biggest questions about solar is, what happens when it snows? Do you have to get up on the roof and clean them off by hand? Or do they have built-in defrosters? Nothing. In northern climates rooftops usually have more of a pitch to them so snow doesn't accumulate (because you don't want the roof to collapse). The panels, because they are black, will generally collect enough heat to melt the snow in a day…
>The panels, because they are black Doesn't seem like that would matter once covered by a few inches of snow. But otherwise your points seem solid.
You don't ever get a few inches of snow on the top of the roof. The point of the aggressive pitch is so the weight of the snow pulls itself off the roof so your roof/home doesn't have to support 5 tons of water weight.
IDK if you live in a place that sees significant snow, if so, just drive around a neighborhood and notice what the snow looks like on the rooftops. Generally none on the top and some on the bottom. That's by design.
While the bottom of the panels aren't doing anything to melt the snow, the top portions are, and that accelerates as the snow melts.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#38> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.
That is technically true, but why is no one asking how and why his electricity bill is $223 at minimum, plied higher since the bill was only reduced by that amount. Also, “subsidies” are really just a quaint term for “made the working and lower middle class that can’t pay for such exorbitant luxuries pay for it through taxes and inflation”. I’m always a bit confused if seemingly otherwise smart people simply don’t un…
Subsidies exist for many industries
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#39Does anyone have any detailed, up-to-date resources for personal solar use? I'd love to learn more, in particular the cost/output/lifespan progress by time. Last time I checked in my area it seemed that you didn't quite break even, but that was a while ago and my understanding was/is very limited.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#40> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.
That is technically true, but why is no one asking how and why his electricity bill is $223 at minimum, plied higher since the bill was only reduced by that amount. Also, “subsidies” are really just a quaint term for “made the working and lower middle class that can’t pay for such exorbitant luxuries pay for it through taxes and inflation”. I’m always a bit confused if seemingly otherwise smart people simply don’t un…
> Would anyone like to subsidize my next restaurant visit by paying for my entree? No? But making someone unknown working class person pay for my $25,000 solar install through inflation is ok?
Yes, it obviously is ok? Your next restaurant meal doesn't have a broad impact on the world we live in, whereas the deployment of solar panels does.