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Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

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Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#31

Post by _-david-_ »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #10

> “The day would not be far off,” wrote cybersecurity and surveillance expert Jim Harper, a former congressional committee counsel and senior fellow at the Cato Institute, “when a national ID is required for picking up prescriptions, purchasing guns and ammunition, paying by credit card, booking air travel, and reserving hotel stays, to name just a few types of transactions the federal government might regulate.” Aga…

>The argument appears to be that an ID issues by a state government is ok, but if it’s issued by the federal government that’s somehow, philosophically an overreach of power.

That is easy. The federal government is only allowed to do what is granted to it in the Constitution (enumerated powers). IDs are never mentioned so the federal government doesn't have the authority.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#32

Post by nerdbert »

adamrezich wrote: post #20
rolenthedeep wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, I had just assumed it was a voter suppression measure

what is wrong with "suppressing" votes of non-citizens?

It's about suppressing votes of marginalized citizens who have limited access to government bureaucratic procedures due to time, location, language, or other constraints, many of which have been constructed deliberately or with knowing negligence.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#33

Post by nerdbert »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #17
uberman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that an illegal immigrant with a valid passport does not need a realid to fly right?

How many illegal immigrants have their passports and are willing to risk flying with them? I'm more talking about the mindset of illegally entering a country and then having the expectation that I can do anything there, anyway. Like in my Norway example, I can't imagine just walking to an airport and expecting everything to work out when I just boated into a random part of the country illegally. Is this a US idea tha…

Living in the Netherlands, I haven't had to show ID to any government agent when flying to another country in the Schengen area in at least ten years (and I fly quite often). If I don't check in online then I am sometime asked to show it at check-in. And sometimes I have to show it at the gate, but the people there are only eyeballing it to make sure the name matches the boarding pass.

Note that I do often have to show ID on the return flight. Each country (and probably airport) has its own procedures.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#34

Post by chrisco255 »

nerdbert wrote: post #32
adamrezich wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is wrong with "suppressing" votes of non-citizens?

It's about suppressing votes of marginalized citizens who have limited access to government bureaucratic procedures due to time, location, language, or other constraints, many of which have been constructed deliberately or with knowing negligence.

This is a neat narrative, but there are tens of thousands of DMV locations all over the country. Appointments can be booked ahead of time to minimize time impact. It only needs to be done once every few years. Documentation is available in English and Spanish. That being said, to participate in civics in the U.S. you need to know some English. It's part of the citizenship test, and the laws are written in English.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#35

Post by Rebelgecko »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #10

> “The day would not be far off,” wrote cybersecurity and surveillance expert Jim Harper, a former congressional committee counsel and senior fellow at the Cato Institute, “when a national ID is required for picking up prescriptions, purchasing guns and ammunition, paying by credit card, booking air travel, and reserving hotel stays, to name just a few types of transactions the federal government might regulate.” Aga…

I think this is already the case (at least in California) - I ended up biting the bullet so to speak and getting a realid because otherwise I'd need to bring my passport with me on every trip to buy ammunition (since unreal drivers licenses aren't acceptable any more)

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#36

Post by prmph »

km3r wrote: post #30
prmph wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with that? By what natural law is moving across cities at will OK, but moving across borders not OK? Legal restriction of movement across borders makes no sense. I mean, wherever you are, you should follow the law. If I'm a criminal, I should be dealt with wherever I find myself. If I don't commit crimes, I should be free to live where I want to live, provided I pay taxes and can pay to stay there.

The same reason I can't just walk into your house and make myself lunch out of your fridge. The people of this country have the same right as the owner of a house to control who can come in and to ask for some requirements as to do so. If you want to loosen the requirements, feel free to get a majority of the owners of the country (we, the people) to agree.

This is a false a equivalence. Immigrants do not not use private resources that belong personally to citizens. They consume public resources, paid for by taxes. So long as they also pay taxes, they are entitled to the use of those resources.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#37

Post by amluto »

> A national database linking all driver’s licenses would effectively impose something alien to our system of civil liberties: a national ID card.

This whole premise is a bit bizarre. We have national databases. We have the IRS’s tax database, social security, and Medicare. We have the selective service database. We have whatever database CBP uses to track anyone who has ever been known to cross a border.

We also have the databases operated by Experian and its competitors, which are worse, because they give out data to basically anyone and are accountable to no one. And they violate people’s’ civil liberties in egregious ways that the government would have trouble getting away with.

Frankly, an actual well-managed national ID database seems like an improvement in all respects. Of course, Real ID is no such thing.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#39

Post by OmahaBoy69 »

whoosh3 wrote: post #19
hacym wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certain OTC and prescription drugs definitely require an ID. Think coffee syrups and potent pain meds.

Pseudoephedrine, many ADHD medications and some muscle relaxants require ID.

You got me curious as to which states require ID to pick up prescription narcotics as I've never heard of this living in Illinois and Colorado. Turns out each state has its own set of unique and sometimes bizarre rules:

https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/docs/menu-pdil.pdf

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#40

Post by km3r »

prmph wrote: post #36
km3r wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reason I can't just walk into your house and make myself lunch out of your fridge. The people of this country have the same right as the owner of a house to control who can come in and to ask for some requirements as to do so. If you want to loosen the requirements, feel free to get a majority of the owners of the country (we, the people) to agree.

This is a false a equivalence. Immigrants do not not use private resources that belong personally to citizens. They consume public resources, paid for by taxes. So long as they also pay taxes, they are entitled to the use of those resources.

So I can walk into your house as long as I start chipping in for rent and buy some of the groceries myself?
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