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More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

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Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#31

Post by pjmlp »

moloch-hai wrote: post #17
pjmlp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A language that isn't pushed in some form, big corporation, zealots or killer framework, usually dies. No famous mainstream language in use today, has ever been adopted based on "it happens on it's own due to it's usability and features". Before you rush out to write something like C, remember that it only came to use thanks to AT&T, Bell Labs and UNIX.

Even a language pushed by corporations, zealots, and a framework usually dies. Fizzling is absolutely the normal fate of any new language, absent a miracle. Even a language that seems to have everything going for it can fade out. Ruby's success used to be thought assured. Then it suddenly wasn't. Python has run the oddest course. It plodded along for two decades, almost imploded on the 2->3 transition, and then got i…

Ah the Python example from people that weren't there I guess.

Zope in the early 2000's, Guido's employment at NIST, CNRI, Google, Dropbox and now Microsoft. CERN and Fermilab pushing for it during 2003 onwards.

Ruby suffered the same fate as languages that are tied to a killer framework, then the killer framework is no longer seen as the new hottest thing to have on the CV. Yet, without Rails, no one would have cared enough for Ruby to matter.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#32

Post by Communitivity »

xigoi wrote: post #16
Communitivity wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust has a unique experience. Initially you hate it, right up to the point where you grok it, then you love it because you realize it save you from so many boneheaded errors that C/C++ allow you to do easily. You can still do them in Rust, but you can't do them unintentionally (generally). The borrow checker, the forced composition over inheritance, and the trait mechanisms are major wins.

I tried Rust once and found it pretty interesting. The moment I left was when I wanted to write a simple web scraper, so I found a library, installed it… and found out that it had downloaded a gigabyte of dependencies.

Yes, it has a bit of the same problem Node does with NPM.

There are ways to minimize the final resulting binary though, such as link time optimization, stripping symbols, building in release mode, and more. The following does a good job going over the options:

https://github.com/johnthagen/min-sized-rust

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#33

Post by Kukumber »

pjmlp wrote: post #29
Kukumber wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, and so far rust is being pushed by evangelists and pseudo-journalists rust wants to penetrate the industry by-proxy rather than with interesting tech/projects Mozilla gave up rewriting firefox in rust Embark gave up writing their new game engine in rust

Mozilla gave up on Firefox with lots of completly useless activities burning their bank accounts, Rust suffered by association. Here, Embark new game engine in Rust hasn't gone anywhere, https://medium.com/embarkstudios/embarks-creative-playground... It even got a new release quite recently, "we here at Embark been using this for over a year in production now for our Creative Playground & custom Rust engine that uses…

They talk about using Rust for over 5 years, and yet they delivered nothing, and switched to using Unreal for their commercial games and upcoming games (2 new titles already announced with Unreal)

Lot of buzz for nothing, just like with Firefox

Rust doesn't seem capable enough for that kind of projects

Other comments mentions pieces of the Android Runtime being written in Rust, and that seems all Rust is able to provide, by-proxy uses

Still waiting for something like Kubernetes for Rust to really push the industry forward, so far, no bueno

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#34

Post by pjmlp »

Kukumber wrote: post #33
pjmlp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla gave up on Firefox with lots of completly useless activities burning their bank accounts, Rust suffered by association. Here, Embark new game engine in Rust hasn't gone anywhere, https://medium.com/embarkstudios/embarks-creative-playground... It even got a new release quite recently, "we here at Embark been using this for over a year in production now for our Creative Playground & custom Rust engine that uses…

They talk about using Rust for over 5 years, and yet they delivered nothing, and switched to using Unreal for their commercial games and upcoming games (2 new titles already announced with Unreal) Lot of buzz for nothing, just like with Firefox Rust doesn't seem capable enough for that kind of projects Other comments mentions pieces of the Android Runtime being written in Rust, and that seems all Rust is able to prov…

They haven't delivered nothing?!?

https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/rust-ecosystem

Running containers on AWS?

https://www.infoq.com/news/2018/12/aws-firecracker/

What have you delivered in your top XVYZ language?

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#35

Post by Kukumber »

pjmlp wrote: post #34
Kukumber wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They talk about using Rust for over 5 years, and yet they delivered nothing, and switched to using Unreal for their commercial games and upcoming games (2 new titles already announced with Unreal) Lot of buzz for nothing, just like with Firefox Rust doesn't seem capable enough for that kind of projects Other comments mentions pieces of the Android Runtime being written in Rust, and that seems all Rust is able to prov…

They haven't delivered nothing?!? https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/rust-ecosystem Running containers on AWS? https://www.infoq.com/news/2018/12/aws-firecracker/ What have you delivered in your top XVYZ language?

That's not because your project is on github that you have delivered something, it's still at the WIP/experimental phase, and its been like that for years

I don't have a top language, and to be honest i am a bit sad about the state of programming languages these days, it's all over the place and nobody seems to hate bloatware, so we get slow stuff that compiles slow all over the place

And i don't believe in "one language to rule them all" moto

https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#section-worked-with-vs...

Not a reference, but it gives an idea about the people interested in Rust, they are mostly the web people, which says a lot about the lack of dynamics

> Running containers on AWS?

1 or 2 projects out of 1000s in a big company doesn't sound interesting

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#36

Post by Kukumber »

pjmlp wrote: post #30
hulitu wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Android runtime does not really excel in performance.

Says whose numbers?

You question a claim about performance

But you don't question a claim about the amount of LOC

You chose what please you as truth, and what doesn't as troll?

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#37

Post by unrealhoang »

Kukumber wrote: post #36
pjmlp wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says whose numbers?

You question a claim about performance But you don't question a claim about the amount of LOC You chose what please you as truth, and what doesn't as troll?

Because they've read the source about the amount of LOC? And it's easily verifiable just by a google search. I believe you have enough skill to do it, if you care. Whereas there's no result about Android runtime being slow, so GP comment is completely reasonable?
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