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Vandals destroy 30k-year-old indigenous cave drawings in Australia

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Vandals destroy 30k-year-old indigenous cave drawings in Australia

#31

Post by Cupertino95014 »

oluwie wrote: post #8

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion but I don't really think this is THAT big of a deal. Yea, I know the art is old and all that and it really is unfortunate but its also the nature for all things to change. Maybe in another 30k years, we'll be looking at the defacement as an amazing piece of art that tells the story of the current social climate at this point in time, or something along those lines.

As much as I hate to be in agreement with the down voters, I joined them on this.

Yes, it IS that big of a deal. Anything 30K years old made by humans is precious beyond measuring. We don't have written words that old. The stock of them is strictly limited and there won't be any more (unless someone discovers one somewhere else, which will be world news).

Re: Vandals destroy 30k-year-old indigenous cave drawings in Australia

#32

Post by cyclotron3k »

oluwie wrote: post #8

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion but I don't really think this is THAT big of a deal. Yea, I know the art is old and all that and it really is unfortunate but its also the nature for all things to change. Maybe in another 30k years, we'll be looking at the defacement as an amazing piece of art that tells the story of the current social climate at this point in time, or something along those lines.

They could have put their vandalism on another wall that didn't have one of the rarest pieces of human expression. But no, they purposely went out of their way to destroy something extremely rare and utterly irreplaceable.

Yes, all things change, and eventually everything will be lost in the eventual heat death of the universe, and all human endeavour will be rendered pointless. But it's still a totally pointless and tragic waste.

Re: Vandals destroy 30k-year-old indigenous cave drawings in Australia

#33

Post by josephcsible »

brutusborn wrote: post #25
plusminusplus wrote: post #15

Is "don't look now, but this is a death cave" a cultural dog whistle of some kind or just a random childish phrase?

I’m Australian and I’m pretty sure it’s just children trying to be “spooky”. I doubt they were trying to vandalise Aboriginal art, since it seems they only covered finger flutes which are hard to distinguish as art.

This makes me think they knew exactly what they were doing:

> The vandals forced their way past barbed wire and dug under a steel gate to get into the Koonalda Caves

If they just wanted to carve something spooky into a rock, there were plenty of way easier places to do so.

Re: Vandals destroy 30k-year-old indigenous cave drawings in Australia

#34

Post by Veen »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #26
josephcsible wrote: post #20

My suspicion is that whoever did this was emboldened when none of the climate change vandals who did similar things to paintings in museums got any real punishment. If they all got a year or two in prison instead, I don't think this would have happened.

The climate change protestors did nothing wrong. We desperately need more attention on climate change or the human race will die out . There is literally nothing else anywhere near as important. Literally everything matters less. To equate those two things is disingenuous and offensive.

Attention and support aren’t the same thing. Their stupid behaviour makes it less likely the general population will support climate action—few people want to be associated with these morons.

Re: Vandals destroy 30k-year-old indigenous cave drawings in Australia

#35

Post by neodymiumphish »

astine wrote: post #14
oluwie wrote: post #8

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion but I don't really think this is THAT big of a deal. Yea, I know the art is old and all that and it really is unfortunate but its also the nature for all things to change. Maybe in another 30k years, we'll be looking at the defacement as an amazing piece of art that tells the story of the current social climate at this point in time, or something along those lines.

Artwork such as this is not just important from an artistic perspective, it's important from an archeological, historical, and paleontological perspective. There is a lot we have learned from ancient rock art and probably a lot that we have yet to learn. For example, by exampining the kinds of animals in ancient cave paintings paleontologists have been able to learn certain details about the appearance and behavior o…

Considering the security established around it and the knowledge of what it was, I find it hard to believe that enough photos, samples, etc, weren't taken before this vandalism to have gained or have the capacity to gain any knowledge these drawings may provide.

Re: Vandals destroy 30k-year-old indigenous cave drawings in Australia

#36

Post by ajsnigrutin »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #12

I have a friend on a property with cave art here in the hunter valley of Australia. We really don't do enough to preserve it at all. He's responsible and ensures no harm but it's still weird to own private land with 10k+ year old art and have no one really give a damn about it. Compare it to European attitudes, eg. Lascaux where they closed off the cave completely and only allow tourists near the modern reconstructio…

> Compare it to European attitudes

Yeah... Can we swap? Or like find a middle ground?

Here in slovenia, we have socialist buildings from 1970s that someone decided to culturally protect, and the owners cannot renew the leaking facade and add insulation, because the outside has to stay the same, and puting insulation on the inside would reduce the inside space and make walkways and doors too narrow to pass (or carry a fridge through or drive through with a wheelchair).

Buildings like this: https://www.zurnal24.si/media/img/83/c3/35bf6005bfff08c83654...

More photos: https://www.zurnal24.si/slovenija/ne-smemo-narediti-fasade-k...

Re: Vandals destroy 30k-year-old indigenous cave drawings in Australia

#37

Post by randomsearch »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #26
josephcsible wrote: post #20

My suspicion is that whoever did this was emboldened when none of the climate change vandals who did similar things to paintings in museums got any real punishment. If they all got a year or two in prison instead, I don't think this would have happened.

The climate change protestors did nothing wrong. We desperately need more attention on climate change or the human race will die out . There is literally nothing else anywhere near as important. Literally everything matters less. To equate those two things is disingenuous and offensive.

Does that mean murdering people in the cause of climate change prevention is ok?

I don’t think literally everything else matters less. I don’t think there’s a simple “matters” scale.

Most crucially, an important cause in itself does not justify any means whatsoever.

Re: Vandals destroy 30k-year-old indigenous cave drawings in Australia

#38

Post by TheNorthman »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #36
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #12

I have a friend on a property with cave art here in the hunter valley of Australia. We really don't do enough to preserve it at all. He's responsible and ensures no harm but it's still weird to own private land with 10k+ year old art and have no one really give a damn about it. Compare it to European attitudes, eg. Lascaux where they closed off the cave completely and only allow tourists near the modern reconstructio…

> Compare it to European attitudes Yeah... Can we swap? Or like find a middle ground? Here in slovenia, we have socialist buildings from 1970s that someone decided to culturally protect, and the owners cannot renew the leaking facade and add insulation, because the outside has to stay the same, and puting insulation on the inside would reduce the inside space and make walkways and doors too narrow to pass (or carry a…

what makes a building socialist?

Re: Vandals destroy 30k-year-old indigenous cave drawings in Australia

#39

Post by karteum »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #26
josephcsible wrote: post #20

My suspicion is that whoever did this was emboldened when none of the climate change vandals who did similar things to paintings in museums got any real punishment. If they all got a year or two in prison instead, I don't think this would have happened.

The climate change protestors did nothing wrong. We desperately need more attention on climate change or the human race will die out . There is literally nothing else anywhere near as important. Literally everything matters less. To equate those two things is disingenuous and offensive.

I also agree that we desperately need more attention on climate change. In addition to that, to my knowledge no art was actually damaged by climate change protestors (who mostly projected soup on a glass, not directly on paintings...)

Re: Vandals destroy 30k-year-old indigenous cave drawings in Australia

#40

Post by sokoloff »

wiseelder932 wrote: post #22
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #12

I have a friend on a property with cave art here in the hunter valley of Australia. We really don't do enough to preserve it at all. He's responsible and ensures no harm but it's still weird to own private land with 10k+ year old art and have no one really give a damn about it. Compare it to European attitudes, eg. Lascaux where they closed off the cave completely and only allow tourists near the modern reconstructio…

Is it possible that the teenagers did not know that the "scratchings" (for lack of a better term) were actually ancient and wise and sacred and enlightened aboriginal art?

> The vandals forced their way past barbed wire and dug under a steel gate to get into the Koonalda Caves

I’m going to say they had some strong clues.

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