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Samoa cancels Friday 30th and travels one day forward in time

nytimes.com

31–37 of 37 posts

Re: Samoa cancels Friday 30th and travels one day forward in time

#31
post #2

It's cases like this that show that you should use a proper timezone library in your code. Too often I see websites where the timezone field is given as "+/- X from GMT". Just store everything in UTC, and use tzdata fields (e.g. "Europe/London") to convert to something nice to show the user, and People Cleverer Than You™ will make sure everything works.

While it's better than nothing, doesn't solve the problem of the future legislation. Real example from the corporate life (specific software in this case was Exchange/Outlook): meeting is scheduled between Seattle and Beijing locations, US changes start date of the date-light savings time. One of the meeting times needs to be updated, so people would still meet at the same time, but whatever time you update you move meeting by one hour at this location, creating conflicts and upsetting users.

Even simpler problem is not so easy to handle in software: if you save dates in UTC, once DST start date changes, all your meetings move one hour, but most meetings are scheduled in "local" time, i.e. dentist still expectes to see you at 10am.

Re: Samoa cancels Friday 30th and travels one day forward in time

#32
post #29
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? It's arbitrary anyways--as the article mentions the same place previously switched (which means if the Jews didn't like change they would still be on the time that everyone is now switching back to).

The Jewish religion has it's own date line that does not correspond to the international one. My question was what does Christianity do, and I guess no one here knows.

Christianity is actually split on which day to keep. Those that follow the Catholic Church (via canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea) worship on Lord's Day[1] (Sunday). Those that feel the church could not change the day of worship (e.g. Seventh Day Baptists) worship on the Sabbath (Saturday).

Wikipedia has a small breakdown for the 7th day in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath - some going with local, some going with time in Israel. Not being Jewish, I am not sure how accurate this one is for Jews: http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-trav-dateline.htm

It was my understanding that Catholics go with local to determine Sunday.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Day

Re: Samoa cancels Friday 30th and travels one day forward in time

#33
post #29
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? It's arbitrary anyways--as the article mentions the same place previously switched (which means if the Jews didn't like change they would still be on the time that everyone is now switching back to).

The Jewish religion has it's own date line that does not correspond to the international one. My question was what does Christianity do, and I guess no one here knows.

I'd say that except for a few groups(1), Christians just want a day and aren't too concerned about which day.

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church

Re: Samoa cancels Friday 30th and travels one day forward in time

#34
post #13
post #2

It's cases like this that show that you should use a proper timezone library in your code. Too often I see websites where the timezone field is given as "+/- X from GMT". Just store everything in UTC, and use tzdata fields (e.g. "Europe/London") to convert to something nice to show the user, and People Cleverer Than You™ will make sure everything works.

Storing everything in UTC is a huge improvement, but is still an imperfect solution because the Tz database changes over time. Suppose you are writing a appointment tracking system, and, at some point before the olson tz database has been updated with this change, the user in the Samoa timezone creates an future appointment for Jun 2, 2012. That would be stored in UTC. Now, you upgrade the olson TZ database file on y…

The last system I had to do that had to have good dates - I did the following:

Past events had the local time, UTC, and time zone entry stored. Storage isn't much of an issue and it helped to keep things straight. Future events were only stored in local (8pm Dec 12, 2012) with time zone. Calculations were done on UTC with future events computing UTC on the fly. Reporting and actual day something occurred was kind of important. A day skipped would be an issue.

Re: Samoa cancels Friday 30th and travels one day forward in time

#35
post #7

It's actually quite lucky that the world has a sensible longitude upon which an International Date Line can be dropped. Imagine if there was an unbroken ring of industrialised nations going all the way around the Earth, I can see a situation where each nation wants to do business with the nation to its immediate west so badly that they just adjust their clocks forward and forward over the course of decades. Eventuall…

Perhaps we would have a different notation of time if this were the case.

Re: Samoa cancels Friday 30th and travels one day forward in time

#36
post #18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My assumption was that the TZ database noted when changes in time zones happened so there was always an accurate one-to-one mapping between a Unix time and a time in each time zone. Adding 2012's time zone information wouldn't override 2010's. Is this incorrect?

> there was always an accurate one-to-one mapping between a Unix time and a time in each time zone That's not true in general. When the "clocks go backwards", there are two 1:30ams on that morning. The bug this comment is refering to, is where you convert from local to UTC as soon as the user enters the datetime, and then use that from then on. Since the "local to UTC" conversion might change between now and the date…

It seems to me that it's impossible to solve this bug in the general case. If the user enters March 15, 2012 before the switch, should that become March 16, 2012 after the switch, or stay March 15? Either scenario could be correct depending on the intent of the date. Messy.

Re: Samoa cancels Friday 30th and travels one day forward in time

#37
post #4

I'm quite curious if local churches will follow along with the change. I know Jews wouldn't, and I doubt Muslims would, but I don't think there are any Jews there anyway, not sure about Muslims.

With Samoa calendar change, question for Jews: When is Shabbat? http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/12/30/3090969/samoa-cal...
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