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The Knights Templar started London's first bank (2017)

bbc.com

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Re: The Knights Templar started London's first bank (2017)

#31

Post by tgv »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #29
verisimi wrote: post #17

Those wonderful knights templar! Brave Christian crusaders! Warrior monks! > Our financial system today has a lot in common with this model. This bit might be true, but what was the real story?

> what was the real story? Some of the grittier truth may be about political expediency of taming "knights". Monty Python caricatures aside, until (and beyond) the Templars, many were marauding bands of privateers looting their way around Europe. Sending them off to do God's work while letting them play at "banking" the spoils was probably a neat solution to not having a standing army, but still keeping a cadre of lo…

The Templars were not set up to send off bandits and do God's work. They started as protection for pilgrimage, set up an system to move funds from Europe into the Holy Land to support their work (which included hiring quite a few mercenaries), which turned into banking, and were half-coerced into some of the Crusades (notably not the first), because they were indeed the experienced, hardened and loyal soldiers that were needed. But they did not "bank" the spoils, and regular Crusaders weren't roaming thieves either.

Re: The Knights Templar started London's first bank (2017)

#32

Post by nonrandomstring »

tgv wrote: post #31
nonrandomstring wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what was the real story? Some of the grittier truth may be about political expediency of taming "knights". Monty Python caricatures aside, until (and beyond) the Templars, many were marauding bands of privateers looting their way around Europe. Sending them off to do God's work while letting them play at "banking" the spoils was probably a neat solution to not having a standing army, but still keeping a cadre of lo…

The Templars were not set up to send off bandits and do God's work. They started as protection for pilgrimage, set up an system to move funds from Europe into the Holy Land to support their work (which included hiring quite a few mercenaries), which turned into banking, and were half-coerced into some of the Crusades (notably not the first), because they were indeed the experienced, hardened and loyal soldiers that w…

> regular Crusaders weren't roaming thieves either

Absolutely not. From what I've read they were extraordinarily disciplined. My point was that "knights" more generally until then, are mischaracterised as "good and noble" but were really freelancers [1]. The Templars obtained a better defined security role.

[1] just occurred to me there may be some etymology there.

EDIT: Aha! https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/freelance-orig...

Re: The Knights Templar started London's first bank (2017)

#33

Post by traceroute66 »

seanhunter wrote: post #8

If you ever come to London I would highly recommend a visit to that area[1]. take the district line to "Temple" and walk into temple court. This is a set of interconnecting pretty courtyards surrounded by buildings used as offices for lawyers working at the nearby high court. These courtyards have a feel similar to an Oxford/Cambridge college and have been used as settings for "Harry Potter" and other films (to give…

> This is a set of interconnecting pretty courtyards surrounded by building

Yes, London is quite unique amongst global cities for having these sorts of treasures hidden right in the centre. Another good example in that area is Linconln's Inn Fields[1] which is a quiet sanctuary just off the horrors of Holborn. Venture up the road to the City of London and there are maybe dozens more.

It is, sadly, an art form that has been lost in the "relaxed planning" era of the New-Build garbage.

Fortunately the older areas are protected from the grubby hands of the greedy property developers due to various legal constraints in place ranging from Listed Building status to more obscure ones.

[1]https://goo.gl/maps/YxAnXeDBsiv9dkRH7

Re: The Knights Templar started London's first bank (2017)

#34

Post by HeckFeck »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #4
dr_dshiv wrote: post #3

Nice article. Wish they had gone on to cover Cosimo Medici! He was the best. Inventing banking and then using the profits to fund the renaissance? Need people like that today.

> Need people like that today. Florentine maecenas were no different from billionaires today chasing each other in space races. They didn't sponsor artists for the sake of art but rather as a display of wealth and power. Edit: I am clarifying intention here, it does not mean that the side effects don't have a net positive, but they are unlikely to come from a purely altruistic place.

We can never know the exact intention of anyone, especially figures long in the past.

I find it hard to believe that wealthy eccentrics didn't (or don't) enjoy things for their own sake. If you have a pile of money and the chance to create something great, that'd fill you with wild excitement I can only imagine.

Re: The Knights Templar started London's first bank (2017)

#36

Post by Neil44 »

I did a walking tour of Bruges the other week and heard an interesting story about salt. Salt was a valuable commodity and could function as currency, carrying it around was risky and impractical. So there was a guild house that became a place where you could store your salt and get given a little note about how much salt they owed you. Later on if you wanted to exchange the value of your salt with someone else it became more practical to swap the little notes directly rather than trek down to the salt house and swap physical salt so people started doing that. Boom, paper money. I find all these kind of stories fascinating.

Re: The Knights Templar started London's first bank (2017)

#37

Post by quickthrower2 »

One way to do this over large distances is the bank of Alice and the bank of Bob meet and exchange papers/signatures/codes in advance, enough to do a years worth and then they can verify each other’s cheques until the next exchange. They could settle in gold.

For fraud prevention this system might allow for a “personal identification number” for the cheque to be memorised.

Re: The Knights Templar started London's first bank (2017)

#38

Post by luxpir »

Neil44 wrote: post #36

I did a walking tour of Bruges the other week and heard an interesting story about salt. Salt was a valuable commodity and could function as currency, carrying it around was risky and impractical. So there was a guild house that became a place where you could store your salt and get given a little note about how much salt they owed you. Later on if you wanted to exchange the value of your salt with someone else it be…

It's where the term "salary" came from, if I'm not mistaken. Roman thing?

Re: The Knights Templar started London's first bank (2017)

#39

Post by [deleted] »

Neil44 wrote: post #36

I did a walking tour of Bruges the other week and heard an interesting story about salt. Salt was a valuable commodity and could function as currency, carrying it around was risky and impractical. So there was a guild house that became a place where you could store your salt and get given a little note about how much salt they owed you. Later on if you wanted to exchange the value of your salt with someone else it be…

[deleted]

Re: The Knights Templar started London's first bank (2017)

#40

Post by dalbasal »

We're in a time when histories of money attract a bit more interest. We are exiting a period where theoretical/rhetorical histories^ are a little less dominant.

In any case, it's interesting how often religion is deeply involved in what we would now call the financial services sector. In many ancient civilisations, temples minted coins and performed other banking-esque functions. Many ancient law codes dedicate a lot of ink to debt, and debt-related things.

I wonder how much of the Templars' methods were picked up in the Mediterranean and Levant, where civilisation was deep rooted and continuous.

^I want to use the term "pseudohistory," but without the accusatory implications. What I mean is models with thought experiment at their core. EG historical materialism, Smith, etc

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