Recruiting programmers to your startup • Hacker News Board

Re: Recruiting programmers to your startup

#31

Post by jroseattle » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 4:04 AM UTC

This is great advice from Chris, and it's very much field tested.

On top of this, I would add honesty -- as in direct, upfront honesty. Don't sugarcoat anything. Over-selling a company can quickly be translated as bait-and-switch once somebody joins an organization.

I've used the honesty element as a recruiting tool, though. I explain where we have holes, and why persuading the candidate to join addresses those holes and moves us forward.

That approach doesn't always fit with every candidate, but I view that as a positive. I save them time from considering a situation for which they're potentially not a good fit. And I save myself time in finding the right candidate that fits our profile.

Re: Recruiting programmers to your startup

#32

Post by gruseom » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 5:24 AM UTC

kls wrote: post #17

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An afternoon pairing is a much richer test than bringing pre-made work to the table, as it more accurately simulates the fit.

While I think paring has some value, someone is not going to be productive in an environment that they just came into, tribal knowledge such as business intelligence has not set in and there are acronyms, business realities and other common knowledge elements that this person will be just exposed to and have to deal with. Some of that information is garnered over the course of months so depending on the problem domai…

You've made at least a half dozen good points in this thread. I wish you'd write a longer piece on the topic and post it. This stuff is important, and you seem to be a bit ahead of the curve (or maybe it's just that I agree with you).

Re: Recruiting programmers to your startup

#33

Post by wisty » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 8:35 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #21

One big problem I see is the disparity between the treatment of cofounders and early engineers. Late stage employees will almost certainly will almost certainly do (financially) better by working at Google or Facebook. I've seen th polls here where people talk about their exits and apart from a handful who essentially win the lottery, you'd predictably get more and work less at one of these two. But why is it the las…

One advantage early employees get is the possibility of promotion. If the company succeeds, they have a fair chance of getting a more senior position than they would otherwise be able to get. But this is true of any fast-growing company, not just fast-growing start-ups, and there's no guarantee.

Re: Recruiting programmers to your startup

#34

Post by peteretep » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 9:00 AM UTC

> Business people who don’t understand this make the mistake of emphasizing mechanistic metrics like the number of hours in the office and the number of bugs fixed per week.

And yet a good 30-50% of all employed programmers I've met aggressively waste time, and given the opportunity to be lazy will be super super lazy. I don't think this is a trait you can pick up in an interview.

So how do you deal with that if you give your programmers ultimate freedom? I guess in the US you can just fire them...

Re: Recruiting programmers to your startup

#35

Post by jbjohns » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 11:04 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #34

> Business people who don’t understand this make the mistake of emphasizing mechanistic metrics like the number of hours in the office and the number of bugs fixed per week. And yet a good 30-50% of all employed programmers I've met aggressively waste time, and given the opportunity to be lazy will be super super lazy. I don't think this is a trait you can pick up in an interview. So how do you deal with that if you…

People tend to expand out the work to match the time. If you have people working 10 hour days expect them to move really, really slowly. I've only seen 7 hour days once or twice but I didn't see any people "taking it easy" there.

Re: Recruiting programmers to your startup

#36

Post by kaybe » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 11:37 AM UTC

droithomme wrote: post #29

This is basically a rehash of the usual article on the topic that says the same things and is published every couple months. One twist was notable. Rather than try to compete on basic hygenic issues and market realities, the advice is to just give up: "[Y]ou will never beat, say, Google on perks or job security so don’t even bother to pitch those. You’ll never beat Wall Street banks or rich big companies on cash sala…

The point is not that you shouldn't have them, the point is that you should not use them as the main arguments for choosing your company.

Re: Recruiting programmers to your startup

#37

Post by kls » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 2:47 PM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #32

kls wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think paring has some value, someone is not going to be productive in an environment that they just came into, tribal knowledge such as business intelligence has not set in and there are acronyms, business realities and other common knowledge elements that this person will be just exposed to and have to deal with. Some of that information is garnered over the course of months so depending on the problem domai…

You've made at least a half dozen good points in this thread. I wish you'd write a longer piece on the topic and post it. This stuff is important, and you seem to be a bit ahead of the curve (or maybe it's just that I agree with you).

I am passionate about the subject because, I used to be really bad at interviewing people. I took a lot of reflection on what I was doing wrong and to be honest some ego issues on my own part, when I was younger. When I started evaluation what I was doing wrong and what other people where doing right I started to see a common trends among those that are effective at hiring and a common trend among those that where complaining about talent. Once I started doing what the effective hiring managers where doing, I began to be able to spot true talent. I don't think I have misidentified talent since that realization, nor have I had a false positive.

I thank you for the encouragement, and I have thought about putting together an article on the subject. I think the information is valuable and could be of use to a lot of people. I will see if I can free up some time to put one together.

Re: Recruiting programmers to your startup

#38

Post by gruseom » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 5:31 PM UTC

kls wrote: post #37

gruseom wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've made at least a half dozen good points in this thread. I wish you'd write a longer piece on the topic and post it. This stuff is important, and you seem to be a bit ahead of the curve (or maybe it's just that I agree with you).

I am passionate about the subject because, I used to be really bad at interviewing people. I took a lot of reflection on what I was doing wrong and to be honest some ego issues on my own part, when I was younger. When I started evaluation what I was doing wrong and what other people where doing right I started to see a common trends among those that are effective at hiring and a common trend among those that where co…

If you do write it, and want a second pair of eyes to help with editing, feel free to email me (address in profile).

Re: Recruiting programmers to your startup

#39

Post by kls » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:35 PM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #38

kls wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am passionate about the subject because, I used to be really bad at interviewing people. I took a lot of reflection on what I was doing wrong and to be honest some ego issues on my own part, when I was younger. When I started evaluation what I was doing wrong and what other people where doing right I started to see a common trends among those that are effective at hiring and a common trend among those that where co…

If you do write it, and want a second pair of eyes to help with editing, feel free to email me (address in profile).

Thanks, I have dyslexia so that would be a great help, it is one of the reasons that I am hesitant to write articles and one of the reasons I post prolifically, writing is a challenge that I must always exercise to keep my ability to do so.

Re: Recruiting programmers to your startup

#40

Post by gruseom » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 9:45 PM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #19

I think the tuple may be the cutting edge of a profound social trend: the end of the employer/employee relationship. It's interesting to see posts like the OP struggle with how the traditional categories ("founder" and "employee") are no longer adequate to describe what is rapidly evolving, with neologisms like "late cofounder" popping up as attempts to address it. The catalyst is that the perceived value of good pro…

Follow-up: my (early!) cofounder pointed out to me that "late cofounder" is an oxymoron. To "found" implies being present at the beginning, or more precisely at the bottom (as in "foundation"). The new is oxymoronic in terms of the old.