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No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

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Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#31

Post by smitty1e »

mmastrac wrote: post #3

The whole argument against MAID feels ridiculously like the anti-abortion position. The other option to providing it is having them end their life in a way that might be risky or fail to succeed in a way that leaves them painfully scarred for life or suffering more than they had to. Why are people forced to live if they don't want to?

> Why are people forced to live if they don't want to?

As with abortion, why must I cheerfully pay taxes for policy affecting individuals that's morally objectionable?

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#32

Post by tomrod »

_-david-_ wrote: post #26
tomrod wrote: post #10

Quoted post unavailable.

Do you have any evidence this article has factual errors or are you just slandering the author?

> But the CAMAP recordings plainly suggest that exactly this is happening, that euthanasia workers know it, and that they are acting with no urgency to stop it.

One example: this is an assertion made from cherrypicked quotes above. Having seen apologists and detractors from other domains sets off a red flag when this happens.

Is it "factual error"? Depends. Do you consider logical fallacies to be factual errors? I encourage a re-read of the article with skepticism.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#33

Post by bjt2n3904 »

tomrod wrote: post #20
bjt2n3904 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

That isn't a solution, its a personal ideology made manifest and an extreme response to the recent controversy around a veteran inappropriately offered MAID for PTSD and suicidal thoughts, for which the offeror was sacked. There are legitimate, compassionate reasons to allow people the choice to die with dignity.

No post body was provided.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#34

Post by joe_the_user »

BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 wrote: post #27

Taken to a logical extreme, the underlying premise of this article is that MAID should only be available to the wealthy. People with disabilities and/or grievous suffering from illness(es) tend to be depressed, especially when finances and supports are lacking. If we restrict MAID to the wealthy without mental conditions, we end up prolonging the suffering of many people.

I'd say any state-facilitated euthanasia needs to be extremely carefully considered in situations where suicide is a recommended and facilitated option to avoid homelessness and related disasters.

Of course, I'm also in favor of just not organizing benefits so that disabled people wind-up facing homelessness and so being willing to choose death.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#35

Post by tomrod »

joe_the_user wrote: post #28
tomrod wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

> The problem of the Canadian state offering to kill people who've lost their welfare benefits is something I know independently from this article.

Do share your sources, so that we can leave ideologically biased "gotcha" journalists to do their thing while we look at a real issue.

> The larger question should be discussed rather than this particular article's slant speculated on.

Indeed. The veteran with PTSD and suicidal thoughts did the right thing by calling out the person who invited them to MAID, and it was the right thing for the person to be sacked.

> I just down voted you in both place without needing any incentive.

And?

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#36

Post by CosmicShadow »

Seems like a stretching propaganda hit piece from the anti-abortion crowd stretching into calling the "current" Canadian Government in power a "regime" that kills poor people by...get this...convincing doctors to convincingly get poor and unhealthy people to go past every fucking alarm bell and human instinct and literally kill themselves with their assistance to somehow be less of a burden on the state? Somehow a small group of people killing themselves will make any difference financially or politically somehow to a country or party? And every comment against it seems downvoted, yeah ok....

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#37

Post by mmastrac »

smitty1e wrote: post #31
mmastrac wrote: post #3

The whole argument against MAID feels ridiculously like the anti-abortion position. The other option to providing it is having them end their life in a way that might be risky or fail to succeed in a way that leaves them painfully scarred for life or suffering more than they had to. Why are people forced to live if they don't want to?

> Why are people forced to live if they don't want to? As with abortion, why must I cheerfully pay taxes for policy affecting individuals that's morally objectionable?

I have bad news for you. You will never gain the ability to pick and choose what your taxes fund, and the other people paying taxes have entirely different sets of important things that they wish to fund, and different sets of things that they are horrified that their taxes are supporting.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#38

Post by tomrod »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #33
tomrod wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't a solution, its a personal ideology made manifest and an extreme response to the recent controversy around a veteran inappropriately offered MAID for PTSD and suicidal thoughts, for which the offeror was sacked. There are legitimate, compassionate reasons to allow people the choice to die with dignity.

Quoted post unavailable.

Murder: kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation.

As assisted suicide is lawful in Canada, the definition does not apply.

EDIT:

> Edit: He does not know. Oh I weep for this ignorant generation. The reckoning of this will be dear.

It has also been a long time since someone has thought of me as part of a rising generation. Decades, even. While I appreciate the thought that I am youthful and ignorant, I am neither.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#39

Post by tomrod »

joe_the_user wrote: post #34
BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 wrote: post #27

Taken to a logical extreme, the underlying premise of this article is that MAID should only be available to the wealthy. People with disabilities and/or grievous suffering from illness(es) tend to be depressed, especially when finances and supports are lacking. If we restrict MAID to the wealthy without mental conditions, we end up prolonging the suffering of many people.

I'd say any state-facilitated euthanasia needs to be extremely carefully considered in situations where suicide is a recommended and facilitated option to avoid homelessness and related disasters. Of course, I'm also in favor of just not organizing benefits so that disabled people wind-up facing homelessness and so being willing to choose death.

We agree on both of these points.

Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime

#40

Post by mmastrac »

mistermann wrote: post #29
bmelton wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sympathetic to those who wish for assisted suicide to prevent pain for diseases or illnesses they've succumbed to. I agree with your thesis that death may be preferential to suffering, and should be available to those who seek it. On the other hand, there are articles like this[1], wherein the main factor for the requested euthanasia is income. "But until recently, he was able to live comfortably, sharing his mo…

My prediction is that this poor man is the leading edge of a massive tsunami that is heading towards Canadian shores. Housing/rent prices are beyond insane in Canada, we have 500k+ immigrants per year, and with food prices now on the rise 10% to 20% at least , I can't imagine how many people there are going to be who can't afford a roof over their heads. And I've seen zero sign that this is even on the radar of gover…

> I've seen zero sign that this is even on the radar of government

Perhaps you're being hyperbolic, but respectfully, if you really haven't seen any sign it doesn't feel like you've been looking that hard. There have been numerous steps for addressing both housing and food prices, and neither of those can be solved overnight.

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